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	<title>Comments on: Gita Sahgal on &#8220;Innuendo&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/26/gita-sahgal-on-innuendo/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/26/gita-sahgal-on-innuendo/comment-page-1/#comment-452636</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=29153#comment-452636</guid>
		<description>my typo  should read UK section and not US</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my typo  should read UK section and not US</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/26/gita-sahgal-on-innuendo/comment-page-1/#comment-452635</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:09:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=29153#comment-452635</guid>
		<description>Well Amensty International are going to be put in order by non other than Eric Lee - that champion of Human rights who is seeking election to its US Section Board.

I wonder if Eric Lee told AI that he served in the IDF not that long ago.  Surely HP would have picked this up?


http://www.ericlee.info/2006/08/why_i_served.html#more

Why I serve[d] 

Ten years ago, I wrote an article for my web-based weekly newsletter BibiWATCH on the subject of my service in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). My views have not changed in those years, and I reprint the article below.


WHY I SERVE - by Eric Lee

By the time you read these words, I will be in uniform. About two months ago, I received the notice in the mail. Report to a central bus station in one of Israel&#039;s southern cities at 9:00 in the morning on Monday, 14 October. Go home on Wednesday, 6 November. The notice came from the Israel Defense Forces, in which I have served as a reservist since 1985. Some of you reading this do not live in Israel, so I guess I should explain. 

Israel has always had a people&#039;s army. Not only is the regular army based on conscription, but the vast bulk of the Israeli forces consist of reservists who are also obligated by law to serve until a certain age. Even if you come to live here when you are already an adult, well past the age of 18 when boys and girls here get drafted -- even then, you still have to serve in the reserves. 

I was drafted in June 1985 and have served ever since in a combat unit. Since the outbreak of the Intifada in December 1987, my unit (and I with it) has been called to serve every year, always in the occupied territories. I have served in and around Kalkilya, Tubas, Bethlehem, Beth-el, Tekoa, Jenin, Dahariya and Gaza. I mention this because I want to address two audiences who I know are among the readers of this newsletter. 

There is one group which regularly attacks my patriotism and the patriotism of those who share my views. Some (okay, most) of these critics do not actually live in Israel themselves. (Their Zionism is of the &quot;virtual reality&quot; type.) But they are prepared to fight down to the very last Israeli soldier to preserve Israeli sovereignty over Rachel&#039;s Tomb or some other holy site. Danny Shapiro handles these people quite nicely in his letter, in this week&#039;s letters column. 

The other group is one which questions the credentials of Israeli leftists -- after all, we do serve in an occupation 
army, we live on &quot;stolen Palestinian land&quot;, etc., etc. This view has also found expression in letters to this publication. 

Recently I got a letter from someone in the United States asking if the movement urging resistance to serving in the 
territories, &quot;Yesh Gvul&quot; (There&#039;s a Limit/Border) had become inactive. The implication was that were it active, certainly leftists like myself would be part of it. 

Well, &quot;Yesh Gvul&quot; is still around. I saw them leafleting a recent &quot;Peace Now&quot; rally in Tel Aviv. And they&#039;ve been running newspaper ads, listing the names of soldiers who refuse to participate in the occupation. 

And I should say at the outset that I respect these people. I know that they&#039;re sincere. I know that many of them are paying a price for their beliefs -- not only the price of military prison, but also the hostility of a society which looks upon them as traitors. I respect them -- but I do not share their beliefs. 

Tomorrow, I will put on my uniform and serve my 24 days -- presumably in the occupied territories -- without hesitation about what I am doing. And I want to tell you why. ........</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Amensty International are going to be put in order by non other than Eric Lee &#8211; that champion of Human rights who is seeking election to its US Section Board.</p>
<p>I wonder if Eric Lee told AI that he served in the IDF not that long ago.  Surely HP would have picked this up?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ericlee.info/2006/08/why_i_served.html#more" rel="nofollow">http://www.ericlee.info/2006/08/why_i_served.html#more</a></p>
<p>Why I serve[d] </p>
<p>Ten years ago, I wrote an article for my web-based weekly newsletter BibiWATCH on the subject of my service in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). My views have not changed in those years, and I reprint the article below.</p>
<p>WHY I SERVE &#8211; by Eric Lee</p>
<p>By the time you read these words, I will be in uniform. About two months ago, I received the notice in the mail. Report to a central bus station in one of Israel&#8217;s southern cities at 9:00 in the morning on Monday, 14 October. Go home on Wednesday, 6 November. The notice came from the Israel Defense Forces, in which I have served as a reservist since 1985. Some of you reading this do not live in Israel, so I guess I should explain. </p>
<p>Israel has always had a people&#8217;s army. Not only is the regular army based on conscription, but the vast bulk of the Israeli forces consist of reservists who are also obligated by law to serve until a certain age. Even if you come to live here when you are already an adult, well past the age of 18 when boys and girls here get drafted &#8212; even then, you still have to serve in the reserves. </p>
<p>I was drafted in June 1985 and have served ever since in a combat unit. Since the outbreak of the Intifada in December 1987, my unit (and I with it) has been called to serve every year, always in the occupied territories. I have served in and around Kalkilya, Tubas, Bethlehem, Beth-el, Tekoa, Jenin, Dahariya and Gaza. I mention this because I want to address two audiences who I know are among the readers of this newsletter. </p>
<p>There is one group which regularly attacks my patriotism and the patriotism of those who share my views. Some (okay, most) of these critics do not actually live in Israel themselves. (Their Zionism is of the &#8220;virtual reality&#8221; type.) But they are prepared to fight down to the very last Israeli soldier to preserve Israeli sovereignty over Rachel&#8217;s Tomb or some other holy site. Danny Shapiro handles these people quite nicely in his letter, in this week&#8217;s letters column. </p>
<p>The other group is one which questions the credentials of Israeli leftists &#8212; after all, we do serve in an occupation<br />
army, we live on &#8220;stolen Palestinian land&#8221;, etc., etc. This view has also found expression in letters to this publication. </p>
<p>Recently I got a letter from someone in the United States asking if the movement urging resistance to serving in the<br />
territories, &#8220;Yesh Gvul&#8221; (There&#8217;s a Limit/Border) had become inactive. The implication was that were it active, certainly leftists like myself would be part of it. </p>
<p>Well, &#8220;Yesh Gvul&#8221; is still around. I saw them leafleting a recent &#8220;Peace Now&#8221; rally in Tel Aviv. And they&#8217;ve been running newspaper ads, listing the names of soldiers who refuse to participate in the occupation. </p>
<p>And I should say at the outset that I respect these people. I know that they&#8217;re sincere. I know that many of them are paying a price for their beliefs &#8212; not only the price of military prison, but also the hostility of a society which looks upon them as traitors. I respect them &#8212; but I do not share their beliefs. </p>
<p>Tomorrow, I will put on my uniform and serve my 24 days &#8212; presumably in the occupied territories &#8212; without hesitation about what I am doing. And I want to tell you why. &#8230;&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: M*o*r*g*o*t*h</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/26/gita-sahgal-on-innuendo/comment-page-1/#comment-452501</link>
		<dc:creator>M*o*r*g*o*t*h</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=29153#comment-452501</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Sundeep of ‘Little Brown Footballs’, has so far blamed everyone but Amnesty for its decision to partner with Cageprisoners. Including insinuating Gita Sahgal has been lying all along.&lt;/i&gt;

Its disgusting isn&#039;t it?

On the off chance, &quot;Sid&quot; is reading this btw, I apologise for anything bad I&#039;ve ever said about you. You&#039;re a hundred, no, a million times the person Hundal could ever espouse to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Sundeep of ‘Little Brown Footballs’, has so far blamed everyone but Amnesty for its decision to partner with Cageprisoners. Including insinuating Gita Sahgal has been lying all along.</i></p>
<p>Its disgusting isn&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>On the off chance, &#8220;Sid&#8221; is reading this btw, I apologise for anything bad I&#8217;ve ever said about you. You&#8217;re a hundred, no, a million times the person Hundal could ever espouse to be.</p>
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		<title>By: Effendi</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/26/gita-sahgal-on-innuendo/comment-page-1/#comment-452486</link>
		<dc:creator>Effendi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=29153#comment-452486</guid>
		<description>Sundeep of ‘Little Brown Footballs’, has so far blamed everyone but Amnesty for its decision to partner with Cageprisoners. Including insinuating Gita Sahgal has been lying all along.

http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7597</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sundeep of ‘Little Brown Footballs’, has so far blamed everyone but Amnesty for its decision to partner with Cageprisoners. Including insinuating Gita Sahgal has been lying all along.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7597" rel="nofollow">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7597</a></p>
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		<title>By: Gordon Bennet</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/26/gita-sahgal-on-innuendo/comment-page-1/#comment-452461</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Bennet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=29153#comment-452461</guid>
		<description>&quot;As I’ve always said Gita Sahgal became merely the vehicle for Nick Cohen / Hitchens / Harry’s Place et al to undermine Amnesty&quot;

Did someone say something about &quot;swivel-eyed&quot;? Look no further.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As I’ve always said Gita Sahgal became merely the vehicle for Nick Cohen / Hitchens / Harry’s Place et al to undermine Amnesty&#8221;</p>
<p>Did someone say something about &#8220;swivel-eyed&#8221;? Look no further.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynne T</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/26/gita-sahgal-on-innuendo/comment-page-1/#comment-452453</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynne T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=29153#comment-452453</guid>
		<description>Presumably if Hundal was around and providing opinions at the time of Amnesty&#039;s founding, that event would also be attributed to evil Zionists picking on whatever anti-zionist / anti-imperialists of the day. After all, as Mahatir Mohammed explains, universal human rights is a Jewish invention and AI&#039;s founder, Peter Benenson was a member of the tribe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Presumably if Hundal was around and providing opinions at the time of Amnesty&#8217;s founding, that event would also be attributed to evil Zionists picking on whatever anti-zionist / anti-imperialists of the day. After all, as Mahatir Mohammed explains, universal human rights is a Jewish invention and AI&#8217;s founder, Peter Benenson was a member of the tribe.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Scholar</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/26/gita-sahgal-on-innuendo/comment-page-1/#comment-452455</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Scholar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=29153#comment-452455</guid>
		<description>Sophia, I agree.

Also I suspect that all of the people going nuts to defend Mr Begg as a legitimate human rights worker, &lt;i&gt;Sunny, I&#039;m talking to you&lt;/i&gt; care &lt;i&gt;nothing&lt;/i&gt; for the rights of women.  That women&#039;s rights are secondary or even completely invisible to them.

Women&#039;s rights are the first to get lost in this race to the bottom with our new culturally relativistic standards. 

These identity politics whores* hate all us throwbacks who still believe in universal human rights. All they have to do is start down that road of paranoia &lt;i&gt;[zionists, neocons, americans, israeli lobby... ...]&lt;/i&gt; you can hear their teeth nashing in hatred and suddenly it&#039;s like Dr. Jeckle - they transform into reactionaries and they&#039;re already throwing women, gays, jews and everyone else under the bus.     

*(my apologies to real whores who don&#039;t deserve to be smeared by association)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sophia, I agree.</p>
<p>Also I suspect that all of the people going nuts to defend Mr Begg as a legitimate human rights worker, <i>Sunny, I&#8217;m talking to you</i> care <i>nothing</i> for the rights of women.  That women&#8217;s rights are secondary or even completely invisible to them.</p>
<p>Women&#8217;s rights are the first to get lost in this race to the bottom with our new culturally relativistic standards. </p>
<p>These identity politics whores* hate all us throwbacks who still believe in universal human rights. All they have to do is start down that road of paranoia <i>[zionists, neocons, americans, israeli lobby... ...]</i> you can hear their teeth nashing in hatred and suddenly it&#8217;s like Dr. Jeckle &#8211; they transform into reactionaries and they&#8217;re already throwing women, gays, jews and everyone else under the bus.     </p>
<p>*(my apologies to real whores who don&#8217;t deserve to be smeared by association)</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Scholar</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/26/gita-sahgal-on-innuendo/comment-page-1/#comment-452456</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Scholar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=29153#comment-452456</guid>
		<description>Sophia, I agree.

Also I suspect that all of the people going nuts to defend Mr Begg as a legitimate human rights worker, &lt;i&gt;Sunny, I&#039;m talking to you&lt;/i&gt; care &lt;i&gt;nothing&lt;/i&gt; for the rights of women.  That women&#039;s rights are secondary or even completely invisible to them.

Women&#039;s rights are the first to get lost in this race to the bottom with our new culturally relativistic standards. 

These identity politics whores* hate all us throwbacks who still believe in universal human rights. All they have to do is start down that road of paranoia &lt;i&gt;[zionists, neocons, americans, israeli lobby... ...]&lt;/i&gt; you can hear their teeth nashing in hatred and suddenly it&#039;s like Dr. Jeckle - they transform into reactionaries and they&#039;re already throwing women, gays, jews and everyone else under the bus.     

*(my apologies to real whores who don&#039;t deserve to be smeared by association)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sophia, I agree.</p>
<p>Also I suspect that all of the people going nuts to defend Mr Begg as a legitimate human rights worker, <i>Sunny, I&#8217;m talking to you</i> care <i>nothing</i> for the rights of women.  That women&#8217;s rights are secondary or even completely invisible to them.</p>
<p>Women&#8217;s rights are the first to get lost in this race to the bottom with our new culturally relativistic standards. </p>
<p>These identity politics whores* hate all us throwbacks who still believe in universal human rights. All they have to do is start down that road of paranoia <i>[zionists, neocons, americans, israeli lobby... ...]</i> you can hear their teeth nashing in hatred and suddenly it&#8217;s like Dr. Jeckle &#8211; they transform into reactionaries and they&#8217;re already throwing women, gays, jews and everyone else under the bus.     </p>
<p>*(my apologies to real whores who don&#8217;t deserve to be smeared by association)</p>
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		<title>By: Sophia</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/26/gita-sahgal-on-innuendo/comment-page-1/#comment-452441</link>
		<dc:creator>Sophia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=29153#comment-452441</guid>
		<description>Memo to Sunny:  oh please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Memo to Sunny:  oh please.</p>
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		<title>By: Sophia</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/26/gita-sahgal-on-innuendo/comment-page-1/#comment-452440</link>
		<dc:creator>Sophia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:41:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=29153#comment-452440</guid>
		<description>Women?  Who needs women anyway.  Especially women with voices, faces, political power, economic power, freedom of choice - why - why should AI or any other human rights group stand up for the pesky creatures?

Aren&#039;t we all better off with women completely covered, voiceless, pregnant all the time and in the house?  Especially us women.  

Why would we want to go outside without asking permission from a male, or wear makeup, choose our own clothes or go to school, hold a job?

MEMO TO AI AND ALL THE OTHER ASSHATS WHO&#039;VE FORGOTTEN THAN WOMEN ARE HUMAN BEINGS TOO:  HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MINDS?

Also what about people who don&#039;t happen to be members of a certain fundamentalist religious sect?  What if we are liberals or agnostics, aetheists or just plain democrats, or members of minority religious groups, or Hindus, Christians, Buddhists or Jews?  

We don&#039;t have rights either?

I am confused.

I do get one thing though - the Soviet war on Afghanistan was horrendous and the country was effectively destroyed, regardless of whether or not the Soviets felt justified or if their goals were defensible.  

The role of the US was ambiguous at best.  Attempting to defend the people of Afghanistan and/or destroy the Soviet Union, take your pick, we also armed and supported the Taliban and the mujeheddin - al Qaeda - and after the war didn&#039;t try to help rebuild the country, so there was no counter to the extremists and the warlords.  

So many people and their animals were killed, entire tribal groups fled and the economic and social base of the country was devastated.  Much of Afghanistan&#039;s former population now resides in refugee camps, most in Pakistan but also in Turkey and Iran.

So, now we wonder why opium is the primary crop there and why the Taliban became so powerful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Women?  Who needs women anyway.  Especially women with voices, faces, political power, economic power, freedom of choice &#8211; why &#8211; why should AI or any other human rights group stand up for the pesky creatures?</p>
<p>Aren&#8217;t we all better off with women completely covered, voiceless, pregnant all the time and in the house?  Especially us women.  </p>
<p>Why would we want to go outside without asking permission from a male, or wear makeup, choose our own clothes or go to school, hold a job?</p>
<p>MEMO TO AI AND ALL THE OTHER ASSHATS WHO&#8217;VE FORGOTTEN THAN WOMEN ARE HUMAN BEINGS TOO:  HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MINDS?</p>
<p>Also what about people who don&#8217;t happen to be members of a certain fundamentalist religious sect?  What if we are liberals or agnostics, aetheists or just plain democrats, or members of minority religious groups, or Hindus, Christians, Buddhists or Jews?  </p>
<p>We don&#8217;t have rights either?</p>
<p>I am confused.</p>
<p>I do get one thing though &#8211; the Soviet war on Afghanistan was horrendous and the country was effectively destroyed, regardless of whether or not the Soviets felt justified or if their goals were defensible.  </p>
<p>The role of the US was ambiguous at best.  Attempting to defend the people of Afghanistan and/or destroy the Soviet Union, take your pick, we also armed and supported the Taliban and the mujeheddin &#8211; al Qaeda &#8211; and after the war didn&#8217;t try to help rebuild the country, so there was no counter to the extremists and the warlords.  </p>
<p>So many people and their animals were killed, entire tribal groups fled and the economic and social base of the country was devastated.  Much of Afghanistan&#8217;s former population now resides in refugee camps, most in Pakistan but also in Turkey and Iran.</p>
<p>So, now we wonder why opium is the primary crop there and why the Taliban became so powerful.</p>
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