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	<title>Comments on: Blair&#8217;s judgment questioned</title>
	<atom:link href="http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/04/blairs-judgment-questioned/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/04/blairs-judgment-questioned/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: Alaric Woodrow</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/04/blairs-judgment-questioned/comment-page-2/#comment-445355</link>
		<dc:creator>Alaric Woodrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 00:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=27835#comment-445355</guid>
		<description>On the basis of having some form of religion or religious association one could presumably commit all sorts of crimes if Cherie Blair had anything to do with it. To make a mockery of the judicial system, as in this case, it takes but a moment of grossly misplaced sense of the role of religion in today&#039;s world and such a lack of judgement should not be tolerated in any who, for whatever reason, get appointed to the bench.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the basis of having some form of religion or religious association one could presumably commit all sorts of crimes if Cherie Blair had anything to do with it. To make a mockery of the judicial system, as in this case, it takes but a moment of grossly misplaced sense of the role of religion in today&#8217;s world and such a lack of judgement should not be tolerated in any who, for whatever reason, get appointed to the bench.</p>
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		<title>By: mettaculture</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/04/blairs-judgment-questioned/comment-page-2/#comment-445232</link>
		<dc:creator>mettaculture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=27835#comment-445232</guid>
		<description>Brownie the Office of Judicial Complaints hilariously but perfectly predictably has no such power of censure.

Read their website if you want to be drowned with pseudo business speak about customers and the business plan and ponder why on earth such a ridiculously useless body is allowed to absorb tax payers money.

http://www.judicialcomplaints.gov.uk/docs/Business_Plan_2008-2009.pdf 


Many of the complaints that we receive relate to either the
decision of a Judicial Office Holder or the manner in which
a case has been handled. These are matters that we
cannot deal with. To try to address this problem we are
improving the information that we provide on our website
about the issues that we can deal with.


As for judges discretion on sentencing.  I am strongly in favour of discretion and totally opposed to mandatory sentencing.

However a crucial requirement of law is that it be predictable and rational.

We should be clearly able to explain any sentence once we look clearly at the circumstances of an offence.

To that end we need objective criteria principally of aggravating or mitigating features  of the offence and for the offender.

Thus if the final sentence has a discretionary element to it it is not random but perfectly explicable to criteria themselves having an ancient legal pedigree.


http://www.sentencing-guidelines.gov.uk/docs/sgc_magistrates_guidelines_including_update_1_%202%20_3_web.pdf 

The most extensive sentencing guidelines are on cd ROM.

The bench Books Blackstones and Archbolds also give extensive sentencing guidelines with reference to mitigating and aggravating factors.

Nowhere does any of the literature refer to relious devotion per se as a mitigating factor.

N addition the sentencing guidelines give  guideline cases where we can see tarrifs given for offences with similar fact patterns.

The guideline cases here are;

Graham 1993 a woman hit another in a restaurant who called her names and she received black eyes and a swollen nose.  She was sentenced to 6 months later reduced to one month.

Marples 1998 involved an argument in a taxi queue where a man was punched in the nose breaking it.  He received 4 months.

This case as the man was punched at least twice breaking his jaw (never mild as Cherie claimed as the force required to break a jaw is considerable) the second time as the victim appeared to try to make peace I would think is a standard sentence of 5-6 months.

I see nothing in this case that justifies the assailant Miah receiving a non-custodial sentence.

Generally a significant discount on sentence (25-30%) is granted for an early admission of guilt.  Not only does this show an acceptance of culpability and a degree of contrition it also saves extensive court time and cost.

Again Cherie Blair&#039;s argument that Shamso Miah&#039;s piety would lead him  to understand that he had done wrong, falls flat.

If that had been the case he would have pled guilty saving the court the time and cost of having to prove him  guilty.

He did not deserve any discount on tarrif.

In the case of excessively lenient or unduly harsh sentences a reference can be made by the Attorney General to the court of Appeal to alter the sentence.

This has happened recently in the case of the Reading householder sentenced to jail for GBH for protecting his family when they were threatened with death.  The AG correctly put emphasis on the partial defence of extreme provocation which the original trial judge had ignored.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brownie the Office of Judicial Complaints hilariously but perfectly predictably has no such power of censure.</p>
<p>Read their website if you want to be drowned with pseudo business speak about customers and the business plan and ponder why on earth such a ridiculously useless body is allowed to absorb tax payers money.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.judicialcomplaints.gov.uk/docs/Business_Plan_2008-2009.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.judicialcomplaints.gov.uk/docs/Business_Plan_2008-2009.pdf</a> </p>
<p>Many of the complaints that we receive relate to either the<br />
decision of a Judicial Office Holder or the manner in which<br />
a case has been handled. These are matters that we<br />
cannot deal with. To try to address this problem we are<br />
improving the information that we provide on our website<br />
about the issues that we can deal with.</p>
<p>As for judges discretion on sentencing.  I am strongly in favour of discretion and totally opposed to mandatory sentencing.</p>
<p>However a crucial requirement of law is that it be predictable and rational.</p>
<p>We should be clearly able to explain any sentence once we look clearly at the circumstances of an offence.</p>
<p>To that end we need objective criteria principally of aggravating or mitigating features  of the offence and for the offender.</p>
<p>Thus if the final sentence has a discretionary element to it it is not random but perfectly explicable to criteria themselves having an ancient legal pedigree.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.sentencing-guidelines.gov.uk/docs/sgc_magistrates_guidelines_including_update_1_%202%20_3_web.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.sentencing-guidelines.gov.uk/docs/sgc_magistrates_guidelines_including_update_1_%202%20_3_web.pdf</a> </p>
<p>The most extensive sentencing guidelines are on cd ROM.</p>
<p>The bench Books Blackstones and Archbolds also give extensive sentencing guidelines with reference to mitigating and aggravating factors.</p>
<p>Nowhere does any of the literature refer to relious devotion per se as a mitigating factor.</p>
<p>N addition the sentencing guidelines give  guideline cases where we can see tarrifs given for offences with similar fact patterns.</p>
<p>The guideline cases here are;</p>
<p>Graham 1993 a woman hit another in a restaurant who called her names and she received black eyes and a swollen nose.  She was sentenced to 6 months later reduced to one month.</p>
<p>Marples 1998 involved an argument in a taxi queue where a man was punched in the nose breaking it.  He received 4 months.</p>
<p>This case as the man was punched at least twice breaking his jaw (never mild as Cherie claimed as the force required to break a jaw is considerable) the second time as the victim appeared to try to make peace I would think is a standard sentence of 5-6 months.</p>
<p>I see nothing in this case that justifies the assailant Miah receiving a non-custodial sentence.</p>
<p>Generally a significant discount on sentence (25-30%) is granted for an early admission of guilt.  Not only does this show an acceptance of culpability and a degree of contrition it also saves extensive court time and cost.</p>
<p>Again Cherie Blair&#8217;s argument that Shamso Miah&#8217;s piety would lead him  to understand that he had done wrong, falls flat.</p>
<p>If that had been the case he would have pled guilty saving the court the time and cost of having to prove him  guilty.</p>
<p>He did not deserve any discount on tarrif.</p>
<p>In the case of excessively lenient or unduly harsh sentences a reference can be made by the Attorney General to the court of Appeal to alter the sentence.</p>
<p>This has happened recently in the case of the Reading householder sentenced to jail for GBH for protecting his family when they were threatened with death.  The AG correctly put emphasis on the partial defence of extreme provocation which the original trial judge had ignored.</p>
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		<title>By: amie</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/04/blairs-judgment-questioned/comment-page-2/#comment-445057</link>
		<dc:creator>amie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=27835#comment-445057</guid>
		<description>Now that we have the Prince of Wales declaring the Enlightenment outdated and defunct, may we have to expect more judgments along these lines?  Contemplating his babbling on about our soul in nature, I can see mileage in a plea in mitigation: M&#039;lord please spare my client, who is a devout Pantheist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that we have the Prince of Wales declaring the Enlightenment outdated and defunct, may we have to expect more judgments along these lines?  Contemplating his babbling on about our soul in nature, I can see mileage in a plea in mitigation: M&#8217;lord please spare my client, who is a devout Pantheist.</p>
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		<title>By: j.r.</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/04/blairs-judgment-questioned/comment-page-2/#comment-445025</link>
		<dc:creator>j.r.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:41:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=27835#comment-445025</guid>
		<description>The idea that fear of the lord encourages moral or ethical behaviour begs the question of what sort of construct this god actually is. God tells people to do some pretty crazy things. I asked a former haredi jew turned atheist whether he still thought that fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom, and he replied that fear of the lord is the beginning of bombing.

The psychological stress associated with monotheism could also be a factor contributing to delinquent behaviour.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea that fear of the lord encourages moral or ethical behaviour begs the question of what sort of construct this god actually is. God tells people to do some pretty crazy things. I asked a former haredi jew turned atheist whether he still thought that fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom, and he replied that fear of the lord is the beginning of bombing.</p>
<p>The psychological stress associated with monotheism could also be a factor contributing to delinquent behaviour.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/04/blairs-judgment-questioned/comment-page-2/#comment-445008</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 08:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=27835#comment-445008</guid>
		<description>@kb player - Despite being an atheist I do know what you mean - maybe the combined fear of God and the law is more powerful than fear of the law on its own! - but in this case religion wasn&#039;t invoked to help decide whether this man had broken the law but (ostensibly at least) to help determine how that incident should be dealt with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@kb player &#8211; Despite being an atheist I do know what you mean &#8211; maybe the combined fear of God and the law is more powerful than fear of the law on its own! &#8211; but in this case religion wasn&#8217;t invoked to help decide whether this man had broken the law but (ostensibly at least) to help determine how that incident should be dealt with.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick (ex South Africa)</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/04/blairs-judgment-questioned/comment-page-2/#comment-444874</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick (ex South Africa)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 22:16:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=27835#comment-444874</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I think that you do have expectations of people’s behaviour according to their religion &lt;/blockquote&gt;
If the perceptions are that religious people are less criminally incliened, then tose perceptions would be wrong. Borne out if you compare religious people&#039;s representation in represented in prisons when compared to non religious people compared to their respective population levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think that you do have expectations of people’s behaviour according to their religion </p></blockquote>
<p>If the perceptions are that religious people are less criminally incliened, then tose perceptions would be wrong. Borne out if you compare religious people&#8217;s representation in represented in prisons when compared to non religious people compared to their respective population levels.</p>
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		<title>By: Alec</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/04/blairs-judgment-questioned/comment-page-2/#comment-444776</link>
		<dc:creator>Alec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=27835#comment-444776</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt; was Cherie perhaps thinking about a future defence for her husband?

Unlikely (on both counts).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt; was Cherie perhaps thinking about a future defence for her husband?</p>
<p>Unlikely (on both counts).</p>
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		<title>By: KB Player</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/04/blairs-judgment-questioned/comment-page-2/#comment-444773</link>
		<dc:creator>KB Player</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=27835#comment-444773</guid>
		<description>Dunno about this – as some have said we probably need to hear more of the case.  But I have heard, for instance, that in the USA you’re advised to buy used cars off the Amish – they’re less likely to rip you off.  My flatmate is a devout Christian.   If the polis were around accusing him of doing something criminal I would probably say in his defence that he is (a) a law-abiding guy; and (b) a devout Christian.  I think that you do have expectations of people’s behaviour according to their religion within the context of the culture they live in.  Being devout may not make a difference in the behaviour of a Mafia don, but I would bet that if you could do some statistical analysis of criminal activity among devout attendees of Church of Scotland services they would score low.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dunno about this – as some have said we probably need to hear more of the case.  But I have heard, for instance, that in the USA you’re advised to buy used cars off the Amish – they’re less likely to rip you off.  My flatmate is a devout Christian.   If the polis were around accusing him of doing something criminal I would probably say in his defence that he is (a) a law-abiding guy; and (b) a devout Christian.  I think that you do have expectations of people’s behaviour according to their religion within the context of the culture they live in.  Being devout may not make a difference in the behaviour of a Mafia don, but I would bet that if you could do some statistical analysis of criminal activity among devout attendees of Church of Scotland services they would score low.</p>
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		<title>By: Old Peculier</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/04/blairs-judgment-questioned/comment-page-2/#comment-444750</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Peculier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=27835#comment-444750</guid>
		<description>I see the HP thought police are out in full.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see the HP thought police are out in full.</p>
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		<title>By: Old Labour</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/04/blairs-judgment-questioned/comment-page-2/#comment-444749</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Labour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=27835#comment-444749</guid>
		<description>Moral problem,
A relative of a deceased Jewish victim of a concentration  camp sees a Neo Nazi making sick jokes about gas chambers . He then quite rightly gives him a right hook.
Should his religion and ethic background be taken in consideration. Or should it be solely judged on the action of aggressor</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moral problem,<br />
A relative of a deceased Jewish victim of a concentration  camp sees a Neo Nazi making sick jokes about gas chambers . He then quite rightly gives him a right hook.<br />
Should his religion and ethic background be taken in consideration. Or should it be solely judged on the action of aggressor</p>
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