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	<title>Comments on: Free Muslims: Autonomy and Creativity</title>
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	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/01/20/free-muslims-autonomy-and-creativity/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: Alan Ji</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/01/20/free-muslims-autonomy-and-creativity/comment-page-1/#comment-439496</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Ji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 08:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=26785#comment-439496</guid>
		<description>tokyo nambu      @   20 January 2010, 5:44 pm 

I think your&#039;e on to something there. 

A good friend wasn&#039;t the first Pakistani woman in Manchester to go to University; she was the first Pakistani woman in Manchester to move out of the parental home to go to University. 

There was a gap of just a few years before the second was... her sister.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tokyo nambu      @   20 January 2010, 5:44 pm </p>
<p>I think your&#8217;e on to something there. </p>
<p>A good friend wasn&#8217;t the first Pakistani woman in Manchester to go to University; she was the first Pakistani woman in Manchester to move out of the parental home to go to University. </p>
<p>There was a gap of just a few years before the second was&#8230; her sister.</p>
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		<title>By: Larkers</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/01/20/free-muslims-autonomy-and-creativity/comment-page-1/#comment-438182</link>
		<dc:creator>Larkers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 03:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=26785#comment-438182</guid>
		<description>&quot;Artistic expression has always been more or less taboo in Islam, and if examples of great art and culture have nevertheless emerged from the Islamic world they have done so despite the influence of the religion, not because of it.&quot; 
Joseph 21 January 2010, 5:48 am.

The artistic achievements of Islam have almost always been described by non-Moslems. Without western (Christian, Jewish or secular) scholarship it is doubtful whether we would have this appreciation.

I care not at all if Moslems decline to embrace wetern culture. If they choose to do so, then fine. That is not what is keeping me awake at this hour.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Artistic expression has always been more or less taboo in Islam, and if examples of great art and culture have nevertheless emerged from the Islamic world they have done so despite the influence of the religion, not because of it.&#8221;<br />
Joseph 21 January 2010, 5:48 am.</p>
<p>The artistic achievements of Islam have almost always been described by non-Moslems. Without western (Christian, Jewish or secular) scholarship it is doubtful whether we would have this appreciation.</p>
<p>I care not at all if Moslems decline to embrace wetern culture. If they choose to do so, then fine. That is not what is keeping me awake at this hour.</p>
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		<title>By: KB Player</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/01/20/free-muslims-autonomy-and-creativity/comment-page-1/#comment-438047</link>
		<dc:creator>KB Player</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:40:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=26785#comment-438047</guid>
		<description>Well, certain sections of Protestantism and Quakers would have had identical views about art, drama and music except the sacred kind.   Some religions go in for an intense puritanism.  Miserable sods.  They want their adherents&#039; attention turned to the other world, not this one.  Also some brands of Communism disapproved of &quot;bourgeois&quot; art and had very narrow ideas of what was suitable in that line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, certain sections of Protestantism and Quakers would have had identical views about art, drama and music except the sacred kind.   Some religions go in for an intense puritanism.  Miserable sods.  They want their adherents&#8217; attention turned to the other world, not this one.  Also some brands of Communism disapproved of &#8220;bourgeois&#8221; art and had very narrow ideas of what was suitable in that line.</p>
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		<title>By: Hamid</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/01/20/free-muslims-autonomy-and-creativity/comment-page-1/#comment-437840</link>
		<dc:creator>Hamid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=26785#comment-437840</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Yasmin and the Alibhais may be talented and enthusiastic, but their “Prophet” would not approve.&lt;/i&gt;

Now wait -- Prophet Mohammed is infallible.  Islam is pure truth and perfection.  All the crappy stuff that Muslims disproportionately do must be because Muslims are bad people -- otherwise Islam is perfection and there is nothing wrong with Islam.  

Now according to the intellectually comatose Left, this statement was NOT racist.

But it is pure racism to say Mohammed was a pedophile and a slave owner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Yasmin and the Alibhais may be talented and enthusiastic, but their “Prophet” would not approve.</i></p>
<p>Now wait &#8212; Prophet Mohammed is infallible.  Islam is pure truth and perfection.  All the crappy stuff that Muslims disproportionately do must be because Muslims are bad people &#8212; otherwise Islam is perfection and there is nothing wrong with Islam.  </p>
<p>Now according to the intellectually comatose Left, this statement was NOT racist.</p>
<p>But it is pure racism to say Mohammed was a pedophile and a slave owner.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/01/20/free-muslims-autonomy-and-creativity/comment-page-1/#comment-437791</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I agree with Old Peculier above. Artistic expression has always been more or less taboo in Islam, and if examples of great art and culture have nevertheless emerged from the Islamic world they have done so despite the influence of the religion, not because of it. It is therefore incorrect to laud the contributions of Islam to art and culture (as Western politicians and other apologists are increasingly eager to do despite an obvious inability to provide examples), or indeed to refer to such a thing as &quot;Islamic art&quot; at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Old Peculier above. Artistic expression has always been more or less taboo in Islam, and if examples of great art and culture have nevertheless emerged from the Islamic world they have done so despite the influence of the religion, not because of it. It is therefore incorrect to laud the contributions of Islam to art and culture (as Western politicians and other apologists are increasingly eager to do despite an obvious inability to provide examples), or indeed to refer to such a thing as &#8220;Islamic art&#8221; at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Isy</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/01/20/free-muslims-autonomy-and-creativity/comment-page-1/#comment-437709</link>
		<dc:creator>Isy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 23:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=26785#comment-437709</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;BMSD Chair Yasmin Alibhai-Brown will chair the event&lt;/i&gt;

.....and I kind of liked the BMSD. Now I&#039;m confused...........</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>BMSD Chair Yasmin Alibhai-Brown will chair the event</i></p>
<p>&#8230;..and I kind of liked the BMSD. Now I&#8217;m confused&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Old Peculier</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/01/20/free-muslims-autonomy-and-creativity/comment-page-1/#comment-437701</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Peculier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 22:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=26785#comment-437701</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;in certain Muslim homes, children are strongly discouraged from participating in drama, art and music. &lt;/i&gt;

This is becauuse drama (with its &quot;free mixing&quot;) art (depictions of living things) and music (other than drums) are forbidden in Islam.

Yasmin and the Alibhais may be talented and enthusiastic, but their &quot;Prophet&quot; would not approve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>in certain Muslim homes, children are strongly discouraged from participating in drama, art and music. </i></p>
<p>This is becauuse drama (with its &#8220;free mixing&#8221;) art (depictions of living things) and music (other than drums) are forbidden in Islam.</p>
<p>Yasmin and the Alibhais may be talented and enthusiastic, but their &#8220;Prophet&#8221; would not approve.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/01/20/free-muslims-autonomy-and-creativity/comment-page-1/#comment-437647</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=26785#comment-437647</guid>
		<description>As someone who has been on the other end of UCAS forms (though I don&#039;t look at them in the course of my current job) I have to say I am only interested in the subject specific stuff.  Students who go on too long about music, sport and drama make me worry about their commitment to their degree!  Other assessors may think differently of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who has been on the other end of UCAS forms (though I don&#8217;t look at them in the course of my current job) I have to say I am only interested in the subject specific stuff.  Students who go on too long about music, sport and drama make me worry about their commitment to their degree!  Other assessors may think differently of course.</p>
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		<title>By: tokyo nambu</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/01/20/free-muslims-autonomy-and-creativity/comment-page-1/#comment-437586</link>
		<dc:creator>tokyo nambu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=26785#comment-437586</guid>
		<description>``We know that in certain Muslim homes, children are strongly discouraged from participating in drama, art and music.&#039;&#039;

Fortunately, given drama, art, music (and sport) are pretty much the ne plus ultra, if not the sine qua non, of good things to put on a UCAS form, it has the handy side effect of keeping the children of nutters out of university.  Unfortunately, that means they are less likely to have their prejudices confronted: whatever we might say of ISOC hardliners, a university campus is less monocultural than living with your parents in Bradford.

I hear from people whose children are UCAS-age in the (60% Muslim) school my children attend that some parents are outraged that white children seem to get better offers, all things being equal.  But of course, all things aren&#039;t equal: in a high achieving girls&#039; school, the 40% white portion constitute all the music, most of the drama, all of the sport, most of the art.   When it&#039;s hard for universities to differentiate, and when the white girls are applying nationwide whereas the Muslim girls appear unable to go anywhere more than ten miles from home, it&#039;s inevitable that the offers are going to be different.

The multi-dimensional resonance of Trofim (invoking Lysenko) implicitly encouraging people to listen to Shostakovich in the context of a politically oppressive system is impressive.  I am in the midst of writing an essay on Shostakovich, and his struggle to work in an oppressive state is an object lesson in what Muslim hardliners would like to do to art.   Muddle instead of Music, indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We know that in certain Muslim homes, children are strongly discouraged from participating in drama, art and music.&#8221;</p>
<p>Fortunately, given drama, art, music (and sport) are pretty much the ne plus ultra, if not the sine qua non, of good things to put on a UCAS form, it has the handy side effect of keeping the children of nutters out of university.  Unfortunately, that means they are less likely to have their prejudices confronted: whatever we might say of ISOC hardliners, a university campus is less monocultural than living with your parents in Bradford.</p>
<p>I hear from people whose children are UCAS-age in the (60% Muslim) school my children attend that some parents are outraged that white children seem to get better offers, all things being equal.  But of course, all things aren&#8217;t equal: in a high achieving girls&#8217; school, the 40% white portion constitute all the music, most of the drama, all of the sport, most of the art.   When it&#8217;s hard for universities to differentiate, and when the white girls are applying nationwide whereas the Muslim girls appear unable to go anywhere more than ten miles from home, it&#8217;s inevitable that the offers are going to be different.</p>
<p>The multi-dimensional resonance of Trofim (invoking Lysenko) implicitly encouraging people to listen to Shostakovich in the context of a politically oppressive system is impressive.  I am in the midst of writing an essay on Shostakovich, and his struggle to work in an oppressive state is an object lesson in what Muslim hardliners would like to do to art.   Muddle instead of Music, indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: Trofim</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2010/01/20/free-muslims-autonomy-and-creativity/comment-page-1/#comment-437571</link>
		<dc:creator>Trofim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:16:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=26785#comment-437571</guid>
		<description>&quot;Why, they may even engage in cultural social integration and meet some non-Muslim who shares their love of Amy Winehouse&quot;.

Or Shostakovich, for instance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why, they may even engage in cultural social integration and meet some non-Muslim who shares their love of Amy Winehouse&#8221;.</p>
<p>Or Shostakovich, for instance.</p>
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