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	<title>Comments on: Hizb ut-Tahrir turn on the charm in Pakistan</title>
	<atom:link href="http://hurryupharry.org/2009/12/16/hizb-ut-tahrir-turn-on-the-charm-in-pakistan/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/12/16/hizb-ut-tahrir-turn-on-the-charm-in-pakistan/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: natsheh abed salam</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/12/16/hizb-ut-tahrir-turn-on-the-charm-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-430540</link>
		<dc:creator>natsheh abed salam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:40:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=25285#comment-430540</guid>
		<description>oh mr. khan you have just reminded me of abu rughal
do you know who that guy is ?????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh mr. khan you have just reminded me of abu rughal<br />
do you know who that guy is ?????</p>
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		<title>By: KB Player</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/12/16/hizb-ut-tahrir-turn-on-the-charm-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-427181</link>
		<dc:creator>KB Player</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=25285#comment-427181</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;So the engineers and computer science graduates of Derby and Luton Universities are telling the Ulema what the ‘Hukm Shar’i’ (legal judgment) is! &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I get the impression that jihadists eg the 9/11 crowd tend to have studied engineering or computer science or medicine rather than politics, history or the humanities.  Do you know anything about that, Amjad?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>So the engineers and computer science graduates of Derby and Luton Universities are telling the Ulema what the ‘Hukm Shar’i’ (legal judgment) is! </p></blockquote>
<p>I get the impression that jihadists eg the 9/11 crowd tend to have studied engineering or computer science or medicine rather than politics, history or the humanities.  Do you know anything about that, Amjad?</p>
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		<title>By: Kilbarry1</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/12/16/hizb-ut-tahrir-turn-on-the-charm-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-427093</link>
		<dc:creator>Kilbarry1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=25285#comment-427093</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;They’re as alike as Tomás de Torquemada is like Hugo Chavez, which is to say, not similar in the slightest.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;b&gt;From Orwells &quot;Notes On Nationalism&quot;&lt;/b&gt;
&quot;In continental Europe Fascist movements were largely recruited from among Communists, and the opposite process may well happen within the next few years. What remains constant in the nationalist is his state of mind: the object of his feelings is changeable, and may be imaginary.&quot;

(Orwell used &quot;Nationalism&quot; in an extended sense to mean people who are united by their hatred of a common enemy. He sharply differentiated it from Patriotism)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>They’re as alike as Tomás de Torquemada is like Hugo Chavez, which is to say, not similar in the slightest.</i></p>
<p><b>From Orwells &#8220;Notes On Nationalism&#8221;</b><br />
&#8220;In continental Europe Fascist movements were largely recruited from among Communists, and the opposite process may well happen within the next few years. What remains constant in the nationalist is his state of mind: the object of his feelings is changeable, and may be imaginary.&#8221;</p>
<p>(Orwell used &#8220;Nationalism&#8221; in an extended sense to mean people who are united by their hatred of a common enemy. He sharply differentiated it from Patriotism)</p>
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		<title>By: tevya</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/12/16/hizb-ut-tahrir-turn-on-the-charm-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-427070</link>
		<dc:creator>tevya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=25285#comment-427070</guid>
		<description>Amjad, just wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javed_Ahmad_Ghamidi</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amjad, just wikipedia &#8211; <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javed_Ahmad_Ghamidi" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javed_Ahmad_Ghamidi</a></p>
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		<title>By: Josh Scholar</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/12/16/hizb-ut-tahrir-turn-on-the-charm-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-427059</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Scholar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=25285#comment-427059</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Are they any different from the left-wingers of the 1930s who suported any and every atrocity committed by Comrade Stalin? &lt;/i&gt; 

They&#039;re as alike as Tomás de Torquemada is like Hugo Chavez, which is to say, not similar in the slightest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Are they any different from the left-wingers of the 1930s who suported any and every atrocity committed by Comrade Stalin? </i> </p>
<p>They&#8217;re as alike as Tomás de Torquemada is like Hugo Chavez, which is to say, not similar in the slightest.</p>
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		<title>By: Amjad Khan</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/12/16/hizb-ut-tahrir-turn-on-the-charm-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-427056</link>
		<dc:creator>Amjad Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=25285#comment-427056</guid>
		<description>I would like to know the source of that quote Tevya</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to know the source of that quote Tevya</p>
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		<title>By: tevya</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/12/16/hizb-ut-tahrir-turn-on-the-charm-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-427029</link>
		<dc:creator>tevya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=25285#comment-427029</guid>
		<description>Thanks Amjad for the Javed Ghamdi reference. Is this a fair statement of his position on non-Muslims / dar al harb / jihad?

&lt;blockquote&gt;Ghamidi believes that there are certain directives of the Qur’an pertaining to war which were specific only to the Prophet Muhammad and certain specified peoples of his times (particularly the progeny of Abraham: the Ishmaelites, the Israelites, and the Nazarites). Thus, the Prophet and his designated followers waged a war against Divinely specified peoples of their time (the polytheists and the Israelites and Nazarites of Arabia and some other Jews, Christians, et al.) as a form of Divine punishment and asked the polytheists of Arabia for submission to Islam as a condition for exoneration and the others for jizya and submission to the political authority of the Muslims for exemption from death punishment and for military protection as the dhimmis of the Muslims. &lt;b&gt;Therefore, after the Prophet and his companions, there is no concept in Islam obliging Muslims to wage war for propagation or implementation of Islam. &lt;/b&gt;The only valid basis for jihad through arms is to end oppression when all other measures have failed.[9]. According to him Jihad can only be waged by an organized Islamic state. No person, party or group can take arms into their hands (for the purpose of waging Jihad) under any circumstances. Another corollary, in his opinion, is that death punishment for apostasy was also specifically for the recipients of the same Divine punishment during the Prophet&#039;s times—for they had persistently denied the truth of the Prophet&#039;s mission even after it had been made conclusively evident to them by God through the Prophet.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What is the extent of his support in Pakistan, the UK and elsewhere?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Amjad for the Javed Ghamdi reference. Is this a fair statement of his position on non-Muslims / dar al harb / jihad?</p>
<blockquote><p>Ghamidi believes that there are certain directives of the Qur’an pertaining to war which were specific only to the Prophet Muhammad and certain specified peoples of his times (particularly the progeny of Abraham: the Ishmaelites, the Israelites, and the Nazarites). Thus, the Prophet and his designated followers waged a war against Divinely specified peoples of their time (the polytheists and the Israelites and Nazarites of Arabia and some other Jews, Christians, et al.) as a form of Divine punishment and asked the polytheists of Arabia for submission to Islam as a condition for exoneration and the others for jizya and submission to the political authority of the Muslims for exemption from death punishment and for military protection as the dhimmis of the Muslims. <b>Therefore, after the Prophet and his companions, there is no concept in Islam obliging Muslims to wage war for propagation or implementation of Islam. </b>The only valid basis for jihad through arms is to end oppression when all other measures have failed.[9]. According to him Jihad can only be waged by an organized Islamic state. No person, party or group can take arms into their hands (for the purpose of waging Jihad) under any circumstances. Another corollary, in his opinion, is that death punishment for apostasy was also specifically for the recipients of the same Divine punishment during the Prophet&#8217;s times—for they had persistently denied the truth of the Prophet&#8217;s mission even after it had been made conclusively evident to them by God through the Prophet.</p></blockquote>
<p>What is the extent of his support in Pakistan, the UK and elsewhere?</p>
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		<title>By: tevya</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/12/16/hizb-ut-tahrir-turn-on-the-charm-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-427027</link>
		<dc:creator>tevya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=25285#comment-427027</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Are they any different from the left-wingers of the 1930s who suported any and every atrocity committed by Comrade Stalin? &lt;/i&gt;

No. 

HT is the bastard love-child of Leon Trotsky and Haj Amin al Husseini.

It&#039;s the SWP with different beards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Are they any different from the left-wingers of the 1930s who suported any and every atrocity committed by Comrade Stalin? </i></p>
<p>No. </p>
<p>HT is the bastard love-child of Leon Trotsky and Haj Amin al Husseini.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the SWP with different beards.</p>
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		<title>By: Kilbarry1</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/12/16/hizb-ut-tahrir-turn-on-the-charm-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-427025</link>
		<dc:creator>Kilbarry1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:58:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=25285#comment-427025</guid>
		<description>Are they any different from the left-wingers of the 1930s who suported any and every atrocity committed by Comrade Stalin? Those people either denied the reality of what was happening in the Soviet Union or blamed it on the evil Capitalist West. Were they deceived or stupid or WHAT?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are they any different from the left-wingers of the 1930s who suported any and every atrocity committed by Comrade Stalin? Those people either denied the reality of what was happening in the Soviet Union or blamed it on the evil Capitalist West. Were they deceived or stupid or WHAT?</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Scholar</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/12/16/hizb-ut-tahrir-turn-on-the-charm-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-427024</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Scholar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:55:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=25285#comment-427024</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Yes HT knows it is lying and they will deliberately lie to decieve the masses.&lt;/i&gt;

I think that&#039;s a weakness of Islamism.  Eventually the masses will find that western sources of information can be trusted, while Islamists and can not, since they are always lying to maintain an appropriately pious level of enmity with all of the world.  And I think eventually people just ignore liars... But I suppose it will be a huge shock to the culture, when people lose their faith in these trouble makers and can say out loud that it&#039;s all lies.  I have a friend from Pakistan and he was taught horrible things in school, and his schools were very brutal - he certainly didn&#039;t have the freedom to laugh at his teachers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Yes HT knows it is lying and they will deliberately lie to decieve the masses.</i></p>
<p>I think that&#8217;s a weakness of Islamism.  Eventually the masses will find that western sources of information can be trusted, while Islamists and can not, since they are always lying to maintain an appropriately pious level of enmity with all of the world.  And I think eventually people just ignore liars&#8230; But I suppose it will be a huge shock to the culture, when people lose their faith in these trouble makers and can say out loud that it&#8217;s all lies.  I have a friend from Pakistan and he was taught horrible things in school, and his schools were very brutal &#8211; he certainly didn&#8217;t have the freedom to laugh at his teachers.</p>
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