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	<title>Comments on: NUJ Conference: Still Quite Mad</title>
	<atom:link href="http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/24/nuj-conference-still-quite-mad/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/24/nuj-conference-still-quite-mad/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: Stanislaw</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/24/nuj-conference-still-quite-mad/comment-page-1/#comment-414432</link>
		<dc:creator>Stanislaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 12:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24320#comment-414432</guid>
		<description>I see you are as void of the ability to argue your point as before. 

And I&#039;ll stay here and post as I like when I like, so tough shit ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see you are as void of the ability to argue your point as before. </p>
<p>And I&#8217;ll stay here and post as I like when I like, so tough shit ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: SnoopyTheGoon</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/24/nuj-conference-still-quite-mad/comment-page-1/#comment-414346</link>
		<dc:creator>SnoopyTheGoon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24320#comment-414346</guid>
		<description>So I am an &quot;incarticulate&quot; cunt? 

A moron that doesn&#039;t have enough mojo to invent an original insult and enough integrity to retract (or apologize for) his atrocious statement is looking for an excuse by attacking others?

Anal lice has more gumption and smells better too...

Begone, you sorry excuse for a sick amoeba.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So I am an &#8220;incarticulate&#8221; cunt? </p>
<p>A moron that doesn&#8217;t have enough mojo to invent an original insult and enough integrity to retract (or apologize for) his atrocious statement is looking for an excuse by attacking others?</p>
<p>Anal lice has more gumption and smells better too&#8230;</p>
<p>Begone, you sorry excuse for a sick amoeba.</p>
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		<title>By: Stanislaw</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/24/nuj-conference-still-quite-mad/comment-page-1/#comment-414311</link>
		<dc:creator>Stanislaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 01:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24320#comment-414311</guid>
		<description>&quot;while committing a logical fallacy at the start of the discussion:

“Israelis are not inherently better or worse than their neighbours…”&quot;

Where is the logical fallacy there? There is none.

&quot;What kind of freaking defense of Israel is it?&quot; 

It isn&#039;t a defence of Israel, it&#039;s a statement of fact. If you disagree, demonstrate why it&#039;s wrong.

&quot;Who is applying different standards?

Not me. Only a racist who believes Israelis to be inherently better or worse than their neighbours.

You are perhaps drunk. You are certainly incoherent. Go and have a good rest, you stupid incarticulate cunt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;while committing a logical fallacy at the start of the discussion:</p>
<p>“Israelis are not inherently better or worse than their neighbours…”&#8221;</p>
<p>Where is the logical fallacy there? There is none.</p>
<p>&#8220;What kind of freaking defense of Israel is it?&#8221; </p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t a defence of Israel, it&#8217;s a statement of fact. If you disagree, demonstrate why it&#8217;s wrong.</p>
<p>&#8220;Who is applying different standards?</p>
<p>Not me. Only a racist who believes Israelis to be inherently better or worse than their neighbours.</p>
<p>You are perhaps drunk. You are certainly incoherent. Go and have a good rest, you stupid incarticulate cunt.</p>
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		<title>By: SnoopyTheGoon</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/24/nuj-conference-still-quite-mad/comment-page-1/#comment-414262</link>
		<dc:creator>SnoopyTheGoon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 22:34:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24320#comment-414262</guid>
		<description>Stanislaw,

Sorry, man (woman/whatever): you have already proved conclusively that you are a cunt. Now you are trying to out-logic Francis on the quite complex matter of applying moral standards to nations with a lot of hooey, while committing a logical fallacy at the start of the discussion:

&quot;Israelis are not inherently better or worse than their neighbours...&quot;

What kind of freaking defense of Israel is it? Who is applying different standards? Now you have seriously pissed me off, and me an Israeli...

Watch out, Stanislaw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stanislaw,</p>
<p>Sorry, man (woman/whatever): you have already proved conclusively that you are a cunt. Now you are trying to out-logic Francis on the quite complex matter of applying moral standards to nations with a lot of hooey, while committing a logical fallacy at the start of the discussion:</p>
<p>&#8220;Israelis are not inherently better or worse than their neighbours&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>What kind of freaking defense of Israel is it? Who is applying different standards? Now you have seriously pissed me off, and me an Israeli&#8230;</p>
<p>Watch out, Stanislaw.</p>
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		<title>By: David All</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/24/nuj-conference-still-quite-mad/comment-page-1/#comment-414223</link>
		<dc:creator>David All</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24320#comment-414223</guid>
		<description>I believe Snoopy has a pretty good common sense answer for this wildly out of control name calling mess this thread has become. I propose everybody take a break, run, swim, get drunk, get laid whatever you like to do to blow off steam and then come back to HP when you are feeling a lot less tense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe Snoopy has a pretty good common sense answer for this wildly out of control name calling mess this thread has become. I propose everybody take a break, run, swim, get drunk, get laid whatever you like to do to blow off steam and then come back to HP when you are feeling a lot less tense.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon Bennet</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/24/nuj-conference-still-quite-mad/comment-page-1/#comment-414194</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Bennet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:41:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24320#comment-414194</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Given that Israel has consistently held itself to a high and self-critical standard relative to the undemocratic regimes surrounding it, and which yearn for its annihilation, it beggars belief that anyone in this place can refer to mild censure of specific Israeli policies as involving a “racist and anti-semitic frame of logic”. &lt;/i&gt;

What a pile of manure. My three-year old can argue more rationally than that.
(a) What Israel allegedly &quot;holds itself up to&quot; is irrelevant. We are talking about YOU having double standards. See (c).
(b) The whole concept of Israel &quot;holding itself up to&quot; anything is nonsense. Various politicians have said various things. They do not affect the way that Israelis ARE.
(c) What you are being criticised for is not &#039;mild censure&#039; but applying different standards to different nations. It&#039;s called hypocrisy and racism.

&lt;i&gt;I leave that for others who can read my words in more than scan-and-react mode&lt;/i&gt;

In other words, you can&#039;t address the arguments so you throw your toys out of the pram. Pathetic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Given that Israel has consistently held itself to a high and self-critical standard relative to the undemocratic regimes surrounding it, and which yearn for its annihilation, it beggars belief that anyone in this place can refer to mild censure of specific Israeli policies as involving a “racist and anti-semitic frame of logic”. </i></p>
<p>What a pile of manure. My three-year old can argue more rationally than that.<br />
(a) What Israel allegedly &#8220;holds itself up to&#8221; is irrelevant. We are talking about YOU having double standards. See (c).<br />
(b) The whole concept of Israel &#8220;holding itself up to&#8221; anything is nonsense. Various politicians have said various things. They do not affect the way that Israelis ARE.<br />
(c) What you are being criticised for is not &#8216;mild censure&#8217; but applying different standards to different nations. It&#8217;s called hypocrisy and racism.</p>
<p><i>I leave that for others who can read my words in more than scan-and-react mode</i></p>
<p>In other words, you can&#8217;t address the arguments so you throw your toys out of the pram. Pathetic.</p>
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		<title>By: Francis Sedgemore</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/24/nuj-conference-still-quite-mad/comment-page-1/#comment-414086</link>
		<dc:creator>Francis Sedgemore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24320#comment-414086</guid>
		<description>Given that Israel has consistently held itself to a high and self-critical standard relative to the undemocratic regimes surrounding it, and which yearn for its annihilation, it beggars belief that anyone in this place can refer to mild censure of specific Israeli policies as involving a &lt;i&gt;&quot;racist and anti-semitic frame of logic&quot;&lt;/i&gt;. This own-goal plays straight into the hands of Israel demonisers, who would also shut off constructive debate about the future of the Levant and wider Middle East.

It is also laughable to be accused of antisemitism, or at the very least anti-Israel bias, when in an online piece for the Guardian some years ago I argued that Israel&#039;s bombing of the Gaza City power plant could be justified on humanitarian as well as military grounds. I&#039;ve since resigned from that once august organ&#039;s roster of shit-stirring opinionistas, on the grounds that the experience was simply more trouble than it was worth, and always seemed to leave a nasty taste in the mouth.

I plead guilty to being an arsey polemicist. But an antisemite? Well, I leave that for others who can read my words in more than scan-and-react mode to comment on. For example, I am well aware that my friend the esteemed Elder Snoopus the Goon does not agree in full with the &quot;righteous nation&quot; standard. But that&#039;s fine, as neither do I, entirely. I was at the time making a rhetorical point, and there is seemingly little space for nuance in contemporary political discourse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given that Israel has consistently held itself to a high and self-critical standard relative to the undemocratic regimes surrounding it, and which yearn for its annihilation, it beggars belief that anyone in this place can refer to mild censure of specific Israeli policies as involving a <i>&#8220;racist and anti-semitic frame of logic&#8221;</i>. This own-goal plays straight into the hands of Israel demonisers, who would also shut off constructive debate about the future of the Levant and wider Middle East.</p>
<p>It is also laughable to be accused of antisemitism, or at the very least anti-Israel bias, when in an online piece for the Guardian some years ago I argued that Israel&#8217;s bombing of the Gaza City power plant could be justified on humanitarian as well as military grounds. I&#8217;ve since resigned from that once august organ&#8217;s roster of shit-stirring opinionistas, on the grounds that the experience was simply more trouble than it was worth, and always seemed to leave a nasty taste in the mouth.</p>
<p>I plead guilty to being an arsey polemicist. But an antisemite? Well, I leave that for others who can read my words in more than scan-and-react mode to comment on. For example, I am well aware that my friend the esteemed Elder Snoopus the Goon does not agree in full with the &#8220;righteous nation&#8221; standard. But that&#8217;s fine, as neither do I, entirely. I was at the time making a rhetorical point, and there is seemingly little space for nuance in contemporary political discourse.</p>
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		<title>By: SnoopyTheGoon</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/24/nuj-conference-still-quite-mad/comment-page-1/#comment-414039</link>
		<dc:creator>SnoopyTheGoon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24320#comment-414039</guid>
		<description>If I could offer a third opinion on the lively discussion here:

http://simplyjews.blogspot.com/2009/11/confession-i-am-anti-semite.html

Yeah, and HP could do with some moderation indeed: this re Stanislaw&#039;s brilliant sentiment. Bleh...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I could offer a third opinion on the lively discussion here:</p>
<p><a href="http://simplyjews.blogspot.com/2009/11/confession-i-am-anti-semite.html" rel="nofollow">http://simplyjews.blogspot.com/2009/11/confession-i-am-anti-semite.html</a></p>
<p>Yeah, and HP could do with some moderation indeed: this re Stanislaw&#8217;s brilliant sentiment. Bleh&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Stanislaw</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/24/nuj-conference-still-quite-mad/comment-page-1/#comment-413968</link>
		<dc:creator>Stanislaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24320#comment-413968</guid>
		<description>Gordon,

&quot;He offered more than an illogical slogan and a strawman: he offered personal abuse, which is hardly surprising given that he also excuses antisemitism.&quot;

I know, but in fairness I wasn&#039;t entirely polite either. I agree with your other points. I focused on the faulty logic because I don&#039;t want to be accused of simply and solely using the anti-semitism tag. 

I don&#039;t know if Francis is anti-semitic - I suspect the opposite - but whether intentionally or not, he is, as you say, using a racist and anti-semitic frame of logic which is identical to that used by those who simply hate Jews and want to criticise Israel all the time. And in practice it amounts to the same thing - more criticism for Israel, and by corollary less for some of the world&#039;s most repressive regimes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gordon,</p>
<p>&#8220;He offered more than an illogical slogan and a strawman: he offered personal abuse, which is hardly surprising given that he also excuses antisemitism.&#8221;</p>
<p>I know, but in fairness I wasn&#8217;t entirely polite either. I agree with your other points. I focused on the faulty logic because I don&#8217;t want to be accused of simply and solely using the anti-semitism tag. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if Francis is anti-semitic &#8211; I suspect the opposite &#8211; but whether intentionally or not, he is, as you say, using a racist and anti-semitic frame of logic which is identical to that used by those who simply hate Jews and want to criticise Israel all the time. And in practice it amounts to the same thing &#8211; more criticism for Israel, and by corollary less for some of the world&#8217;s most repressive regimes.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon Bennet</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/24/nuj-conference-still-quite-mad/comment-page-1/#comment-413909</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Bennet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24320#comment-413909</guid>
		<description>Stanislaw,
He offered more than an illogical slogan and a strawman: he offered personal abuse, which is hardly surprising given that he also excuses antisemitism.

Simonh,
Thanks for the clarification.
In that case, any claim they may have that they are a democratic organisation is nonsensical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stanislaw,<br />
He offered more than an illogical slogan and a strawman: he offered personal abuse, which is hardly surprising given that he also excuses antisemitism.</p>
<p>Simonh,<br />
Thanks for the clarification.<br />
In that case, any claim they may have that they are a democratic organisation is nonsensical.</p>
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