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	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s worth remembering&#8230;.</title>
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	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/23/its-worth-remembering/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: Lynne T</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/23/its-worth-remembering/comment-page-1/#comment-413539</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynne T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24305#comment-413539</guid>
		<description>Greg:

I guess your reading hasn&#039;t included Tarek Fatah, who traces a lot of Pakistan&#039;s problems to the Cold War and the subsequent promotion of &quot;conservative&quot; Islam as a bulwark against Soviet influence. 

In a nutshell, the CIA made its contribution by supplying some pretty toxic text books for distribution in Pakistani schools (and probably aiding and abetting Zia Al Huq&#039;s military coup). And, as luck would have it, at just about the same time, Pakistan had its own resident Islamist philosopher, Mawdoodi, who is considered by some to have influenced Al Banna and Qutb.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg:</p>
<p>I guess your reading hasn&#8217;t included Tarek Fatah, who traces a lot of Pakistan&#8217;s problems to the Cold War and the subsequent promotion of &#8220;conservative&#8221; Islam as a bulwark against Soviet influence. </p>
<p>In a nutshell, the CIA made its contribution by supplying some pretty toxic text books for distribution in Pakistani schools (and probably aiding and abetting Zia Al Huq&#8217;s military coup). And, as luck would have it, at just about the same time, Pakistan had its own resident Islamist philosopher, Mawdoodi, who is considered by some to have influenced Al Banna and Qutb.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Danger</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/23/its-worth-remembering/comment-page-1/#comment-413518</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Danger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24305#comment-413518</guid>
		<description>Perhaps letting Turkey join the EU some day would help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps letting Turkey join the EU some day would help.</p>
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		<title>By: Pommy Bastard</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/23/its-worth-remembering/comment-page-1/#comment-413467</link>
		<dc:creator>Pommy Bastard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24305#comment-413467</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Gordon Bennet     
Hasan, much of the problem isn’t Saudi but Pakistani.&lt;/i&gt;

Gordon Bennet!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Gordon Bennet<br />
Hasan, much of the problem isn’t Saudi but Pakistani.</i></p>
<p>Gordon Bennet!</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/23/its-worth-remembering/comment-page-1/#comment-413448</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24305#comment-413448</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Hasan, much of the problem isn’t Saudi but Pakistani.&lt;/i&gt;

Quite a lot of the problems in Pakistan are actually due to Saudi.  Saudi Arabia, so I&#039;ve read, funds a lot of the madrassas and actively pushes its form of Islam in Pakistan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Hasan, much of the problem isn’t Saudi but Pakistani.</i></p>
<p>Quite a lot of the problems in Pakistan are actually due to Saudi.  Saudi Arabia, so I&#8217;ve read, funds a lot of the madrassas and actively pushes its form of Islam in Pakistan.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon Bennet</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/23/its-worth-remembering/comment-page-1/#comment-413442</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Bennet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24305#comment-413442</guid>
		<description>Hasan, much of the problem isn&#039;t Saudi but Pakistani.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hasan, much of the problem isn&#8217;t Saudi but Pakistani.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon Bennet</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/23/its-worth-remembering/comment-page-1/#comment-413439</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Bennet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:06:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24305#comment-413439</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Georgia and Russia are democracies…&lt;/i&gt;

You should be a stand-up comedian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Georgia and Russia are democracies…</i></p>
<p>You should be a stand-up comedian.</p>
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		<title>By: hasan prishtina</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/23/its-worth-remembering/comment-page-1/#comment-413413</link>
		<dc:creator>hasan prishtina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24305#comment-413413</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The Communist World was a set of countries which embraced Communism.&lt;/i&gt;

Greg hits the nail on the head. The Communist World was a set of countries where the Communist Party (in virtually all cases) had overthrown the previous government. The people didn&#039;t embrace communism; in nearly all cases, they got rid of it. 

&lt;i&gt;Would we I wonder be so accommodating to the presence of the followers of Islam en-bloc, if we were not so dependent on the oil reserves upon which the foundation of this cult sits?&lt;/i&gt;

I think that&#039;s an argument for why the West is so accommodating to Wahhabis and their ilk. The great majority of Muslims have no oil reserves. There are a number of Muslims I know who would be glad of a little less tolerance being shown by the West to the Saudi variety of Islam and some consideration of the way it&#039;s been practised in Europe for the last 400-odd years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The Communist World was a set of countries which embraced Communism.</i></p>
<p>Greg hits the nail on the head. The Communist World was a set of countries where the Communist Party (in virtually all cases) had overthrown the previous government. The people didn&#8217;t embrace communism; in nearly all cases, they got rid of it. </p>
<p><i>Would we I wonder be so accommodating to the presence of the followers of Islam en-bloc, if we were not so dependent on the oil reserves upon which the foundation of this cult sits?</i></p>
<p>I think that&#8217;s an argument for why the West is so accommodating to Wahhabis and their ilk. The great majority of Muslims have no oil reserves. There are a number of Muslims I know who would be glad of a little less tolerance being shown by the West to the Saudi variety of Islam and some consideration of the way it&#8217;s been practised in Europe for the last 400-odd years.</p>
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		<title>By: Pommy Bastard</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/23/its-worth-remembering/comment-page-1/#comment-413387</link>
		<dc:creator>Pommy Bastard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:52:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;….ensuring that our societies do not abandon the principles that still make them attractive should be seen as part of the effort to win the war against extremist Islamist ideas.&lt;/i&gt; 

Which ‘societies’ and attractive to whom I wonder?

The majority of the population over 35 and living outside of the M25, appears to be deeply concerned that the principles and values with which they grew up are no longer valid. To express concern that the concentrations of disparate immigrant groups and the deep changes that as a consequence become super-imposed on the host community is wrong and problematical. This phenomenon is being effectively ignored by main-stream political parties and automatically branded as racist and irrational.

Many of the principles that once generated a sense pride of self and an attachment of identity in the individual as a member of a long established Nation, have already been degraded. As a result, what used to be referred to as the ‘brain drain’ is now the most valuable ‘trade’ commodity being exported. The family silver of the Nation is being traded for the political expediency of career politicians, too obsessed with their own egos and desire to turn demographic manipulation in to some sort of art form.

As a Nation I believe that we have become increasingly frustrated and fragmented by the inequality of opportunity to participate in the course of own destiny. There has been an ideological war declared upon the West, yet the source of this ideology is cynically denied and neatly obscured by the by the custodians of the very same values it seeks to destroy.

Would we I wonder be so accommodating to the presence of the followers of Islam en-bloc, if we were not so dependent on the oil reserves upon which the foundation of this cult sits?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>….ensuring that our societies do not abandon the principles that still make them attractive should be seen as part of the effort to win the war against extremist Islamist ideas.</i> </p>
<p>Which ‘societies’ and attractive to whom I wonder?</p>
<p>The majority of the population over 35 and living outside of the M25, appears to be deeply concerned that the principles and values with which they grew up are no longer valid. To express concern that the concentrations of disparate immigrant groups and the deep changes that as a consequence become super-imposed on the host community is wrong and problematical. This phenomenon is being effectively ignored by main-stream political parties and automatically branded as racist and irrational.</p>
<p>Many of the principles that once generated a sense pride of self and an attachment of identity in the individual as a member of a long established Nation, have already been degraded. As a result, what used to be referred to as the ‘brain drain’ is now the most valuable ‘trade’ commodity being exported. The family silver of the Nation is being traded for the political expediency of career politicians, too obsessed with their own egos and desire to turn demographic manipulation in to some sort of art form.</p>
<p>As a Nation I believe that we have become increasingly frustrated and fragmented by the inequality of opportunity to participate in the course of own destiny. There has been an ideological war declared upon the West, yet the source of this ideology is cynically denied and neatly obscured by the by the custodians of the very same values it seeks to destroy.</p>
<p>Would we I wonder be so accommodating to the presence of the followers of Islam en-bloc, if we were not so dependent on the oil reserves upon which the foundation of this cult sits?</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/23/its-worth-remembering/comment-page-1/#comment-413356</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24305#comment-413356</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;You can’t argue with people that praise death and hope for it.&lt;/i&gt;

Yes I think that&#039;s it.  Communism, for all its faults was, initially at least, rationale (or an attempt at the rationale).  Islamism&#039;s whole premise is irrationale.  Harder to argue with folks who have irrationale - and nihilistic - beliefs.  Probably why religions do better in the long run than political systems.  It&#039;s a grim thought, isn&#039;t it?  Socialism, capitalism, democracy, etc. will all probably be outlived by religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>You can’t argue with people that praise death and hope for it.</i></p>
<p>Yes I think that&#8217;s it.  Communism, for all its faults was, initially at least, rationale (or an attempt at the rationale).  Islamism&#8217;s whole premise is irrationale.  Harder to argue with folks who have irrationale &#8211; and nihilistic &#8211; beliefs.  Probably why religions do better in the long run than political systems.  It&#8217;s a grim thought, isn&#8217;t it?  Socialism, capitalism, democracy, etc. will all probably be outlived by religion.</p>
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		<title>By: zumb</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/23/its-worth-remembering/comment-page-1/#comment-413351</link>
		<dc:creator>zumb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24305#comment-413351</guid>
		<description>Might be right, but there is a huge difference though. 
Communism was just another political form of dictatorship, very few really believed in it as a religion. There was no God to praise or worship. No sacred book as the Koran or the Bible. It had not deep roots in society (as Greg said) and was not defended by fanatics. That&#039;s exactly why deterrence worked and we&#039;re not destroyed by nuclear Armagedon.
You can&#039;t say the same about islamic fanaticism. You can&#039;t argue with people that praise death and hope for it. 
Even if the majority in islamic countries would like to have normal and peaceful lives, still the extremists would prevail. After all, they have God by their side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Might be right, but there is a huge difference though.<br />
Communism was just another political form of dictatorship, very few really believed in it as a religion. There was no God to praise or worship. No sacred book as the Koran or the Bible. It had not deep roots in society (as Greg said) and was not defended by fanatics. That&#8217;s exactly why deterrence worked and we&#8217;re not destroyed by nuclear Armagedon.<br />
You can&#8217;t say the same about islamic fanaticism. You can&#8217;t argue with people that praise death and hope for it.<br />
Even if the majority in islamic countries would like to have normal and peaceful lives, still the extremists would prevail. After all, they have God by their side.</p>
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