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	<title>Comments on: Principled politics are over</title>
	<atom:link href="http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/22/principled-politics-ar-over/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/22/principled-politics-ar-over/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: Stanislaw</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/22/principled-politics-ar-over/comment-page-1/#comment-413296</link>
		<dc:creator>Stanislaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 02:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24254#comment-413296</guid>
		<description>Metaculture makes some good, if dispiriting, points. Labour&#039;s cynical tactics have blown up in their faces on this matter, but unfortunately they have done real and possibly permanent damage to to the concept of voting being matter for individuals rather than bloc &#039;communities&#039;. 

The Tories would be doing themselves and democracy as whole a favour if at least they dump the ridiculous postal vote vote ploy except for valid cases like the disabled, citizens aborad, etcetera. able-bodied residents here should turn out and vote - there&#039;s been plentiful evidence of how the laxer system of recent times has been abused.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Metaculture makes some good, if dispiriting, points. Labour&#8217;s cynical tactics have blown up in their faces on this matter, but unfortunately they have done real and possibly permanent damage to to the concept of voting being matter for individuals rather than bloc &#8216;communities&#8217;. </p>
<p>The Tories would be doing themselves and democracy as whole a favour if at least they dump the ridiculous postal vote vote ploy except for valid cases like the disabled, citizens aborad, etcetera. able-bodied residents here should turn out and vote &#8211; there&#8217;s been plentiful evidence of how the laxer system of recent times has been abused.</p>
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		<title>By: Executech</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/22/principled-politics-ar-over/comment-page-1/#comment-413167</link>
		<dc:creator>Executech</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 20:28:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24254#comment-413167</guid>
		<description>This is very disturbing information, but also, of course, very important to know... Makes me think twice...
Thank you for bringing it about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is very disturbing information, but also, of course, very important to know&#8230; Makes me think twice&#8230;<br />
Thank you for bringing it about.</p>
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		<title>By: M-o-r-g-o-t-h</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/22/principled-politics-ar-over/comment-page-1/#comment-413021</link>
		<dc:creator>M-o-r-g-o-t-h</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:38:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24254#comment-413021</guid>
		<description>To all the chaps and chapesses who are no longer voting labour - well done. You have my respect (no pun intended).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To all the chaps and chapesses who are no longer voting labour &#8211; well done. You have my respect (no pun intended).</p>
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		<title>By: Binky</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/22/principled-politics-ar-over/comment-page-1/#comment-412961</link>
		<dc:creator>Binky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24254#comment-412961</guid>
		<description>No, Bloo, they do not realise that sucking up to vile fanatics is one reason that they are despised if only for the simple reason that is is not true.

It is not true because 98+% of the people neither know no care about such things, sad to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Bloo, they do not realise that sucking up to vile fanatics is one reason that they are despised if only for the simple reason that is is not true.</p>
<p>It is not true because 98+% of the people neither know no care about such things, sad to say.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark2</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/22/principled-politics-ar-over/comment-page-1/#comment-412956</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24254#comment-412956</guid>
		<description>&quot;Of the trade unions’ numerous battles to secure paternal authority in families and communities by securing its economic base in high-waged, high-skilled, high-status male employment. And of the trade union banners depicting Biblical scenes and characters.&quot;

A very odd description (the motivation that is) that would not be recognosed by most trade unionists - not least in the light of the trades unions&#039; extensive campaigning for equal pay.

Has Lindsay never heard of the Match Girls strike - surely a defining moment in British TU history?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Of the trade unions’ numerous battles to secure paternal authority in families and communities by securing its economic base in high-waged, high-skilled, high-status male employment. And of the trade union banners depicting Biblical scenes and characters.&#8221;</p>
<p>A very odd description (the motivation that is) that would not be recognosed by most trade unionists &#8211; not least in the light of the trades unions&#8217; extensive campaigning for equal pay.</p>
<p>Has Lindsay never heard of the Match Girls strike &#8211; surely a defining moment in British TU history?</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon Bennet</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/22/principled-politics-ar-over/comment-page-1/#comment-412883</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Bennet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24254#comment-412883</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;In fact in one fell swoop New Labour has turned into Respect.&lt;/i&gt;

How true. 

I see that Lindsay is off on another one (another one of his Lehi-fixated rants, that is).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>In fact in one fell swoop New Labour has turned into Respect.</i></p>
<p>How true. </p>
<p>I see that Lindsay is off on another one (another one of his Lehi-fixated rants, that is).</p>
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		<title>By: Birtwhistle</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/22/principled-politics-ar-over/comment-page-1/#comment-412858</link>
		<dc:creator>Birtwhistle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 05:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24254#comment-412858</guid>
		<description>Good points Mettaculture - maybe this is why the London bombings took place after the 2005 general election and not before.

It is possible that it was a &quot;forcing&quot; event to bring the new government into line with Islamist thinking and practice - a &quot;forcing&quot; event with the added piquancy that the government was already hamstrung by its own guilt over the Iraq war, and was therefore unable to counter the Islamist onslaught on any level. 

In other words, it rolled over. Threw in the towel. And strengthened the Islamist position immeasurably.

Tant pis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points Mettaculture &#8211; maybe this is why the London bombings took place after the 2005 general election and not before.</p>
<p>It is possible that it was a &#8220;forcing&#8221; event to bring the new government into line with Islamist thinking and practice &#8211; a &#8220;forcing&#8221; event with the added piquancy that the government was already hamstrung by its own guilt over the Iraq war, and was therefore unable to counter the Islamist onslaught on any level. </p>
<p>In other words, it rolled over. Threw in the towel. And strengthened the Islamist position immeasurably.</p>
<p>Tant pis.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/22/principled-politics-ar-over/comment-page-1/#comment-412851</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 04:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24254#comment-412851</guid>
		<description>&quot;When it started, the Sufi Muslim Council led by Haris Rafiq, had 350 groups.&quot;

What helped to sink the SMC was this very clever blog entry that linked them with American Neocons which was spread all over the Internet:

&quot;The &#039;Neoconservative&#039; Sufi Muslim Council&quot;

http://sufimuslimcouncil.blogspot.com/2006/08/neoconservative-sufi-muslim-council.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;When it started, the Sufi Muslim Council led by Haris Rafiq, had 350 groups.&#8221;</p>
<p>What helped to sink the SMC was this very clever blog entry that linked them with American Neocons which was spread all over the Internet:</p>
<p>&#8220;The &#8216;Neoconservative&#8217; Sufi Muslim Council&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://sufimuslimcouncil.blogspot.com/2006/08/neoconservative-sufi-muslim-council.html" rel="nofollow">http://sufimuslimcouncil.blogspot.com/2006/08/neoconservative-sufi-muslim-council.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nick (ex South Africa)</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/22/principled-politics-ar-over/comment-page-1/#comment-412741</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick (ex South Africa)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 23:29:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24254#comment-412741</guid>
		<description>Metta &lt;blockquote&gt;In fact in one fell swoop New Labour has turned into Respect.&lt;/blockquote&gt;This should be batshit crazy hyperbole...alas it&#039;s not...really not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Metta<br />
<blockquote>In fact in one fell swoop New Labour has turned into Respect.</p></blockquote>
<p>This should be batshit crazy hyperbole&#8230;alas it&#8217;s not&#8230;really not.</p>
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		<title>By: David Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/22/principled-politics-ar-over/comment-page-1/#comment-412707</link>
		<dc:creator>David Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 22:40:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24254#comment-412707</guid>
		<description>Shame about thea rticle as a whole. What a curate’s egg is Nick Cohen. He certainly has his moments. But this is not one of them.

He lazily accuses &quot;the white working class&quot; of providing the electoral support for the BNP, which in fact comes entirely from white people who, while they may in some cases be objectively classifiable as working-class, very consciously do not define themselves as such, and therefore self-consciously always voted Tory in the past, at least in the absence of an extremely rare National Front candidate. And he seems never to have heard of Naxalism, or Irgun, or Lehi, or the Italian Red Brigades, or the Baader-Meinhof Gang. Nor even of the IRA and the INLA, Leninist organisations persistently described as &quot;Catholic&quot; by the Leninist-infested BBC.

Ah, there’s the rub. With his Communist background, Cohen is blind to many things. But not to the hatefulness, as such people see it, of those who created the Labour Movement, the reason why Britain never had a Marxist revolution, a success avenged by the Stalinists (as Cohen used to be), fellow-travellers and Trotskyists in the form of their total destruction of Labour, namely New Labour.

Some of us would vote for candidates in the tradition of the Labour MPs who defended Catholic schools, and thus all church-based state schools, over several successive decades. Of the support by national leaders of the Social Democrats for Christian religious instruction in the schools of Berlin. Of the early Labour activists who resisted schemes to abort, contracept and sterilise the working class out of existence.

Of the Catholic and other Labour MPs, including John Smith, who fought tooth and nail against abortion and easier divorce, not least including both Thatcher’s introduction of abortion up to birth and Major’s introduction of divorce legally easier than release from a car hire contract. Of the Methodist and other Labour MPs, including John Smith, who fought tooth and nail against deregulated drinking and gambling. Of those, including John Smith, who successfully organised (especially through USDAW) against Thatcher’s and Major’s attempts to destroy the special character of Sunday and of Christmas Day, delivering the only Commons defeat of Thatcher’s Premiership.

Of the trade unions’ numerous battles to secure paternal authority in families and communities by securing its economic base in high-waged, high-skilled, high-status male employment. And of the trade union banners depicting Biblical scenes and characters.

But we can’t.

So we are going to have to be those candidates ourselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shame about thea rticle as a whole. What a curate’s egg is Nick Cohen. He certainly has his moments. But this is not one of them.</p>
<p>He lazily accuses &#8220;the white working class&#8221; of providing the electoral support for the BNP, which in fact comes entirely from white people who, while they may in some cases be objectively classifiable as working-class, very consciously do not define themselves as such, and therefore self-consciously always voted Tory in the past, at least in the absence of an extremely rare National Front candidate. And he seems never to have heard of Naxalism, or Irgun, or Lehi, or the Italian Red Brigades, or the Baader-Meinhof Gang. Nor even of the IRA and the INLA, Leninist organisations persistently described as &#8220;Catholic&#8221; by the Leninist-infested BBC.</p>
<p>Ah, there’s the rub. With his Communist background, Cohen is blind to many things. But not to the hatefulness, as such people see it, of those who created the Labour Movement, the reason why Britain never had a Marxist revolution, a success avenged by the Stalinists (as Cohen used to be), fellow-travellers and Trotskyists in the form of their total destruction of Labour, namely New Labour.</p>
<p>Some of us would vote for candidates in the tradition of the Labour MPs who defended Catholic schools, and thus all church-based state schools, over several successive decades. Of the support by national leaders of the Social Democrats for Christian religious instruction in the schools of Berlin. Of the early Labour activists who resisted schemes to abort, contracept and sterilise the working class out of existence.</p>
<p>Of the Catholic and other Labour MPs, including John Smith, who fought tooth and nail against abortion and easier divorce, not least including both Thatcher’s introduction of abortion up to birth and Major’s introduction of divorce legally easier than release from a car hire contract. Of the Methodist and other Labour MPs, including John Smith, who fought tooth and nail against deregulated drinking and gambling. Of those, including John Smith, who successfully organised (especially through USDAW) against Thatcher’s and Major’s attempts to destroy the special character of Sunday and of Christmas Day, delivering the only Commons defeat of Thatcher’s Premiership.</p>
<p>Of the trade unions’ numerous battles to secure paternal authority in families and communities by securing its economic base in high-waged, high-skilled, high-status male employment. And of the trade union banners depicting Biblical scenes and characters.</p>
<p>But we can’t.</p>
<p>So we are going to have to be those candidates ourselves.</p>
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