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	<title>Comments on: Channel 4 program will focus on UK&#8217;s &#8220;pro-Israel lobby&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/14/channel-4-program-will-focus-on-uks-pro-israel-lobby/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/14/channel-4-program-will-focus-on-uks-pro-israel-lobby/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: Joie</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/14/channel-4-program-will-focus-on-uks-pro-israel-lobby/comment-page-4/#comment-410220</link>
		<dc:creator>Joie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24001#comment-410220</guid>
		<description>The whole thing was horribly transparent innuendo and indefensibly vague smear, complete with anxious and unwarranted denials of antisemitism; practically a Philip Glass soundtrack; and montages of Israeli battles and Palestinian victims edited between the unremarkable claims against rich Jews.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole thing was horribly transparent innuendo and indefensibly vague smear, complete with anxious and unwarranted denials of antisemitism; practically a Philip Glass soundtrack; and montages of Israeli battles and Palestinian victims edited between the unremarkable claims against rich Jews.</p>
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		<title>By: David Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/14/channel-4-program-will-focus-on-uks-pro-israel-lobby/comment-page-4/#comment-410182</link>
		<dc:creator>David Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 00:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24001#comment-410182</guid>
		<description>Money and class are not the same thing, zkharya...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Money and class are not the same thing, zkharya&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: David All</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/14/channel-4-program-will-focus-on-uks-pro-israel-lobby/comment-page-4/#comment-410104</link>
		<dc:creator>David All</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24001#comment-410104</guid>
		<description>Venichka: You may be right. In any case, probably should wait till the documentary actually airs before I make any conclusions. Trouble is that there has been so much anti-Israeli propaganda in British Media in recent years that it is hard not to assume in advance a kind of one-sided smear job.

Note: Has any British magazine run on its cover the illustration of a Muslim scimitar piercing the Union Jack, like the New Statesman did in 2002 of the Star of David piercing the British flag for an article on Britain&#039;s pro-Israeli lobby?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Venichka: You may be right. In any case, probably should wait till the documentary actually airs before I make any conclusions. Trouble is that there has been so much anti-Israeli propaganda in British Media in recent years that it is hard not to assume in advance a kind of one-sided smear job.</p>
<p>Note: Has any British magazine run on its cover the illustration of a Muslim scimitar piercing the Union Jack, like the New Statesman did in 2002 of the Star of David piercing the British flag for an article on Britain&#8217;s pro-Israeli lobby?</p>
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		<title>By: zkharya</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/14/channel-4-program-will-focus-on-uks-pro-israel-lobby/comment-page-4/#comment-409967</link>
		<dc:creator>zkharya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:27:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24001#comment-409967</guid>
		<description>&quot;Since when were Anglo-Jews thirteen per cent of the population, then?&quot;

When was Israel-Palestine much less than 13% of news of foreign wars in the last 8 years?

Extremely negative reporting of Israel, much of it state funded.

&quot;No, this is about money.&quot;

You mean Anglo-Jews are prosperous and organised? And know how to schmooze, wine and dine a lady?

Naturally a schlep like you resents that. They&#039;ve got class, you&#039;ve got none. They pull the birds, you pull yourself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Since when were Anglo-Jews thirteen per cent of the population, then?&#8221;</p>
<p>When was Israel-Palestine much less than 13% of news of foreign wars in the last 8 years?</p>
<p>Extremely negative reporting of Israel, much of it state funded.</p>
<p>&#8220;No, this is about money.&#8221;</p>
<p>You mean Anglo-Jews are prosperous and organised? And know how to schmooze, wine and dine a lady?</p>
<p>Naturally a schlep like you resents that. They&#8217;ve got class, you&#8217;ve got none. They pull the birds, you pull yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: Venichka</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/14/channel-4-program-will-focus-on-uks-pro-israel-lobby/comment-page-4/#comment-409906</link>
		<dc:creator>Venichka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24001#comment-409906</guid>
		<description>David All: this (and I really do find it remarkable that people are jumping to all manner of really quite extreme and objectionable conclusions about a programme that that haven&#039;t even seen, because it hasn&#039;t been broadcast yet! This is a classic example of a Harry&#039;s Place thread as lynch mob at its worse, and a presumptious one at that!) is not a BBC documentary, but rather Channel 4, an independent company albeit one that (I think) gets (or certainly used to get) some kind of funding for arts and documentary material. Founded in 1982, it was once a highly reputable channel (if one not afraid to be controversial), but (and not having a TV I am not the best to say....) I get the sense that it has dumbed down considerably in recent years, as a result of greater commercial pressure

I for one stand full square against privatization of the BBC: it would undermine and damage probably the finest news-gathering and distributing body in the world. Frankly the publicly funded BBC is the one thing in this country that I feel a real pride of.

Also, Peter Oborne is by no means &quot;on the left&quot;: he is a crusty old conservative who was the political editor of The Spectator and I have been led believe writes for the Daily Mail.

Sorry to undermine the focus of this wildly irrational (and frankly, loony) thread with some facts :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David All: this (and I really do find it remarkable that people are jumping to all manner of really quite extreme and objectionable conclusions about a programme that that haven&#8217;t even seen, because it hasn&#8217;t been broadcast yet! This is a classic example of a Harry&#8217;s Place thread as lynch mob at its worse, and a presumptious one at that!) is not a BBC documentary, but rather Channel 4, an independent company albeit one that (I think) gets (or certainly used to get) some kind of funding for arts and documentary material. Founded in 1982, it was once a highly reputable channel (if one not afraid to be controversial), but (and not having a TV I am not the best to say&#8230;.) I get the sense that it has dumbed down considerably in recent years, as a result of greater commercial pressure</p>
<p>I for one stand full square against privatization of the BBC: it would undermine and damage probably the finest news-gathering and distributing body in the world. Frankly the publicly funded BBC is the one thing in this country that I feel a real pride of.</p>
<p>Also, Peter Oborne is by no means &#8220;on the left&#8221;: he is a crusty old conservative who was the political editor of The Spectator and I have been led believe writes for the Daily Mail.</p>
<p>Sorry to undermine the focus of this wildly irrational (and frankly, loony) thread with some facts :)</p>
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		<title>By: David Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/14/channel-4-program-will-focus-on-uks-pro-israel-lobby/comment-page-4/#comment-409896</link>
		<dc:creator>David Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:31:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24001#comment-409896</guid>
		<description>Since when were Anglo-Jews thirteen per cent of the population, then? This is not about Jewish electoral support: there are nowhere near enough Jews in Britain for that to matter, certainly not compared to Muslims, or Catholics, or various others. No, this is about money.

As for Arab petrodollars, that is not incompatible. On the contrary, Israel and the Gulf monarchs openly run joint candidates for President of the United States (Bush, Clinton), and wars are duly fought by other people (Britons, Americans, &amp;c) in the identical interests of both of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since when were Anglo-Jews thirteen per cent of the population, then? This is not about Jewish electoral support: there are nowhere near enough Jews in Britain for that to matter, certainly not compared to Muslims, or Catholics, or various others. No, this is about money.</p>
<p>As for Arab petrodollars, that is not incompatible. On the contrary, Israel and the Gulf monarchs openly run joint candidates for President of the United States (Bush, Clinton), and wars are duly fought by other people (Britons, Americans, &amp;c) in the identical interests of both of them.</p>
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		<title>By: zkharya</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/14/channel-4-program-will-focus-on-uks-pro-israel-lobby/comment-page-4/#comment-409890</link>
		<dc:creator>zkharya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24001#comment-409890</guid>
		<description>&quot;Since 2001, LFI has arranged more than 60 free trips to Israel for MPs. LFI and CFI trips account for an astonishing 13% of all funded trips abroad for MPs and candidates. That’s more trips to Israel, with a population smaller than London’s, than to any other country.&quot;

Because of the unique relationship between Israel and the Anglo-Jewish community.

So, what?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Since 2001, LFI has arranged more than 60 free trips to Israel for MPs. LFI and CFI trips account for an astonishing 13% of all funded trips abroad for MPs and candidates. That’s more trips to Israel, with a population smaller than London’s, than to any other country.&#8221;</p>
<p>Because of the unique relationship between Israel and the Anglo-Jewish community.</p>
<p>So, what?</p>
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		<title>By: David All</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/14/channel-4-program-will-focus-on-uks-pro-israel-lobby/comment-page-4/#comment-409888</link>
		<dc:creator>David All</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:19:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24001#comment-409888</guid>
		<description>This BBC documentary is one of the Left&#039;s last stabs at Israel before the General Election in May 2010 that will probably result in a Tory Victory and hopefully some sort of privatization of the BBC that will force its management, in order to compete on an equal basis in a free market, to exile their Lefties to join their Marxist friends on the Ash heap of History. For a historical analogy, think of the German offenses of Spring 1918 in the all-out attempt by Luddendorf to win the Great War before the arrival of the Americans decisively tipped the war against Germany.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This BBC documentary is one of the Left&#8217;s last stabs at Israel before the General Election in May 2010 that will probably result in a Tory Victory and hopefully some sort of privatization of the BBC that will force its management, in order to compete on an equal basis in a free market, to exile their Lefties to join their Marxist friends on the Ash heap of History. For a historical analogy, think of the German offenses of Spring 1918 in the all-out attempt by Luddendorf to win the Great War before the arrival of the Americans decisively tipped the war against Germany.</p>
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		<title>By: zkharya</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/14/channel-4-program-will-focus-on-uks-pro-israel-lobby/comment-page-4/#comment-409887</link>
		<dc:creator>zkharya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24001#comment-409887</guid>
		<description>Which politician hides their membership of BFOI?

What would be the point? Their main goal is to garner Anglo-Jewish support. It&#039;s relatively easy to do. Only Israel unites most Anglo-Jews. Show sympathy for Israel, and you at least do not alienate Anglo-Jews.

As for funding, we&#039;ll see if they actually asked BMOI any questions.

In any case, it is likely to be a mixture of funding. Some is likely to be Israeli, some Anglo-Jewish. Sometime it may be in the person of Anglo-Israeli Jews, so impossible to distinguish.

The question is whether this was &quot;hidden&quot;, or undisclosed for some nefarious purpose.

In any case, it seems to me Osbourne&#039;s problem is with Anglo-Jewish support for Israel, and British politicians&#039; garnering Anglo-Jewish support for acknowledging it.

And it is likely to be no more than Arab or Islamic petro-pounds, over the years.

&quot;This is partly because the present obscurity surrounding it can, paradoxically, give rise to conspiracy theories that have no basis in fact.&quot;

Yeah, right. Talk about a disingenuous motive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which politician hides their membership of BFOI?</p>
<p>What would be the point? Their main goal is to garner Anglo-Jewish support. It&#8217;s relatively easy to do. Only Israel unites most Anglo-Jews. Show sympathy for Israel, and you at least do not alienate Anglo-Jews.</p>
<p>As for funding, we&#8217;ll see if they actually asked BMOI any questions.</p>
<p>In any case, it is likely to be a mixture of funding. Some is likely to be Israeli, some Anglo-Jewish. Sometime it may be in the person of Anglo-Israeli Jews, so impossible to distinguish.</p>
<p>The question is whether this was &#8220;hidden&#8221;, or undisclosed for some nefarious purpose.</p>
<p>In any case, it seems to me Osbourne&#8217;s problem is with Anglo-Jewish support for Israel, and British politicians&#8217; garnering Anglo-Jewish support for acknowledging it.</p>
<p>And it is likely to be no more than Arab or Islamic petro-pounds, over the years.</p>
<p>&#8220;This is partly because the present obscurity surrounding it can, paradoxically, give rise to conspiracy theories that have no basis in fact.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, right. Talk about a disingenuous motive.</p>
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		<title>By: David Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/14/channel-4-program-will-focus-on-uks-pro-israel-lobby/comment-page-4/#comment-409874</link>
		<dc:creator>David Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=24001#comment-409874</guid>
		<description>As Oborne writes in today&#039;s Guardian:

&quot;For instance, Conservative Friends of Israel (CFI) – once described by the famous Conservative politician and historian as &quot;the largest organisation in western Europe dedicated to the cause of the people of Israel&quot; – claims that 80% of all Tory MPs are members. The Labour Friends of Israel is equally formidable. In 2001, Jon Mendelsohn, a former chairman of LFI and now Gordon Brown&#039;s chief election fundraiser, was quoted in the Jerusalem Post as saying that &quot;Zionism is pervasive in New Labour. It is automatic that Blair will come to Labour Friends of Israel meetings.&quot;

Since 2001, LFI has arranged more than 60 free trips to Israel for MPs. LFI and CFI trips account for an astonishing 13% of all funded trips abroad for MPs and candidates. That&#039;s more trips to Israel, with a population smaller than London&#039;s, than to any other country.

Furthermore, those in many sensitive foreign affairs, defence and intelligence posts in the Commons are often Labour or Conservative Friends of Israel. Mike Gapes, chair of the foreign affairs select committee, is a former deputy chair of the LFI. Kim Howells, chair of the intelligence and security committee (and a former Middle East minister), used to chair LFI. James Arbuthnot, chair of the powerful Commons defence select committee, is also the serving parliamentary chair of the CFI.&quot;

Which past of this is not the case? Unless at least some of it is, then yes, we are talking about a very formidable lobby indeed. As Oborne concludes:

&quot;The pro-Israel lobby, in common with other lobbies, has every right to operate and indeed to flourish in Britain. But it needs to be far more open about how it is funded and what it does. This is partly because the present obscurity surrounding it can, paradoxically, give rise to conspiracy theories that have no basis in fact. But it is mainly because politics in a democracy should never take place behind closed doors. It should be out in the open for all to see.&quot;

Shouldn&#039;t it? If not, why not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Oborne writes in today&#8217;s Guardian:</p>
<p>&#8220;For instance, Conservative Friends of Israel (CFI) – once described by the famous Conservative politician and historian as &#8220;the largest organisation in western Europe dedicated to the cause of the people of Israel&#8221; – claims that 80% of all Tory MPs are members. The Labour Friends of Israel is equally formidable. In 2001, Jon Mendelsohn, a former chairman of LFI and now Gordon Brown&#8217;s chief election fundraiser, was quoted in the Jerusalem Post as saying that &#8220;Zionism is pervasive in New Labour. It is automatic that Blair will come to Labour Friends of Israel meetings.&#8221;</p>
<p>Since 2001, LFI has arranged more than 60 free trips to Israel for MPs. LFI and CFI trips account for an astonishing 13% of all funded trips abroad for MPs and candidates. That&#8217;s more trips to Israel, with a population smaller than London&#8217;s, than to any other country.</p>
<p>Furthermore, those in many sensitive foreign affairs, defence and intelligence posts in the Commons are often Labour or Conservative Friends of Israel. Mike Gapes, chair of the foreign affairs select committee, is a former deputy chair of the LFI. Kim Howells, chair of the intelligence and security committee (and a former Middle East minister), used to chair LFI. James Arbuthnot, chair of the powerful Commons defence select committee, is also the serving parliamentary chair of the CFI.&#8221;</p>
<p>Which past of this is not the case? Unless at least some of it is, then yes, we are talking about a very formidable lobby indeed. As Oborne concludes:</p>
<p>&#8220;The pro-Israel lobby, in common with other lobbies, has every right to operate and indeed to flourish in Britain. But it needs to be far more open about how it is funded and what it does. This is partly because the present obscurity surrounding it can, paradoxically, give rise to conspiracy theories that have no basis in fact. But it is mainly because politics in a democracy should never take place behind closed doors. It should be out in the open for all to see.&#8221;</p>
<p>Shouldn&#8217;t it? If not, why not?</p>
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