Comments on: Pirates! http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/12/pirates/ Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:44:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Comstock http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/12/pirates/comment-page-3/#comment-408819 Comstock Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:23:04 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23923#comment-408819 Shiftas, Somali livestock rustlers were murdering in Kenya between the wars! The British Adminstration decided to end the excursions once and for all but were too busy and never found the time. Now the Somalis have advanced to the Tana River and are demanding territorial rights. Everywhere you look a jihad story! Shiftas, Somali livestock rustlers were murdering in Kenya between the wars! The British Adminstration decided to end the excursions once and for all but were too busy and never found the time. Now the Somalis have advanced to the Tana River and are demanding territorial rights. Everywhere you look a jihad story!

]]> By: Monty http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/12/pirates/comment-page-3/#comment-408797 Monty Sat, 14 Nov 2009 02:42:29 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23923#comment-408797 Bert, I want to use the Royal Navy to sink the motherships, you want to use claymore against the skiffs. Why can't we do both? Strikes me, this could work, if we have the guts to carry it out. Bert, I want to use the Royal Navy to sink the motherships, you want to use claymore against the skiffs. Why can’t we do both?

Strikes me, this could work, if we have the guts to carry it out.

]]> By: Bert Preast http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/12/pirates/comment-page-3/#comment-408795 Bert Preast Sat, 14 Nov 2009 02:18:18 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23923#comment-408795 That's fine. With my plan, they'll be coming to me though. I'll be over 60 miles from the coast, as I don't particularly want any opportunists, it's the professionals I'm after. As I said, I'd be ideally placed to radio in the mothership's position. What's needed is for all boats sailing more than say 20 miles offshore to register with the anti-piracy force. As things stand, we can take a ship with skiffs and weapons aboard, and who's to say the weapons aren't to protect them from the pirates? Our sailors know damn well they have a pirate ship, but they can't touch it. Hence my plan to take out the boarding parties and the means of boarding. That’s fine. With my plan, they’ll be coming to me though. I’ll be over 60 miles from the coast, as I don’t particularly want any opportunists, it’s the professionals I’m after. As I said, I’d be ideally placed to radio in the mothership’s position.

What’s needed is for all boats sailing more than say 20 miles offshore to register with the anti-piracy force. As things stand, we can take a ship with skiffs and weapons aboard, and who’s to say the weapons aren’t to protect them from the pirates? Our sailors know damn well they have a pirate ship, but they can’t touch it. Hence my plan to take out the boarding parties and the means of boarding.

]]> By: Monty http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/12/pirates/comment-page-3/#comment-408672 Monty Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:44:25 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23923#comment-408672 The mothership has the range they need though Bert. If they were operating zodiacs and stuff from the coast, they would be fairly confined to their own coast, and the merchant fleet could more easily stay out of their range. The mothership has the range they need though Bert. If they were operating zodiacs and stuff from the coast, they would be fairly confined to their own coast, and the merchant fleet could more easily stay out of their range.

]]> By: Bert Preast http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/12/pirates/comment-page-3/#comment-408547 Bert Preast Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:08:15 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23923#comment-408547 Monty - Here's a photo of a mothership: http://ahmadalikarim.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/somali-pirates_12.jpg Frankly, the outboard engines on the skiffs and the blokes and weapons in them are worth more. Monty – Here’s a photo of a mothership:

http://ahmadalikarim.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/somali-pirates_12.jpg

Frankly, the outboard engines on the skiffs and the blokes and weapons in them are worth more.

]]> By: Monty http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/12/pirates/comment-page-3/#comment-408509 Monty Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:07:07 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23923#comment-408509 Paul I agree with you about recognition of Somaliland. But insofar as Somalia "belongs" to no other nation state, it is effectively independant. So the rest of the world has no right to impose upon it's territory, including it's territorial waters. And no right to deny (for example) it's trawlers access to international waters. What we do have the right to do, is protect our own vessels. Including using overwhelming force. And we have a right to respond to any attacks on our territory, with an armed response against their territory. Bert: We need to sink motherships. Destroying their small assault craft will not be enough. They will be replaced faster than we can sink them. But the loss of motherships as well will really hurt the guys at the top. Paul I agree with you about recognition of Somaliland.

But insofar as Somalia “belongs” to no other nation state, it is effectively independant. So the rest of the world has no right to impose upon it’s territory, including it’s territorial waters. And no right to deny (for example) it’s trawlers access to international waters.

What we do have the right to do, is protect our own vessels. Including using overwhelming force. And we have a right to respond to any attacks on our territory, with an armed response against their territory.

Bert:
We need to sink motherships. Destroying their small assault craft will not be enough. They will be replaced faster than we can sink them. But the loss of motherships as well will really hurt the guys at the top.

]]> By: paul fauvet http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/12/pirates/comment-page-3/#comment-408494 paul fauvet Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:36:33 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23923#comment-408494 Monty calls Somalia an "independent nation state". It is no such thing - it has broken into three separate political entities - the lawless mess in the south, the Republic of Somaliland in the northwest, and the pirate haven of Puntland in the middle. It is utopian to imagine (as the African Union does) that Somalia can be put back together again. It's far more realistic to deal with each of the three entities as separate successor states. Western nations could immediately recognise Somaliland, and offer the benefits of recognition to Puntland - but only if it collaborates in eradicating piracy. Monty calls Somalia an “independent nation state”. It is no such thing – it has broken into three separate political entities – the lawless mess in the south, the Republic of Somaliland in the northwest, and the pirate haven of Puntland in the middle.

It is utopian to imagine (as the African Union does) that Somalia can be put back together again.

It’s far more realistic to deal with each of the three entities as separate successor states. Western nations could immediately recognise Somaliland, and offer the benefits of recognition to Puntland – but only if it collaborates in eradicating piracy.

]]> By: Monty http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/12/pirates/comment-page-3/#comment-408458 Monty Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:00:39 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23923#comment-408458 Yet we are talking here about independant nation states. We have no right to impose anything upon an independant state, regardless of how beneficial our actions might be for the population. But we do have a right to protect our shipping. Yet we are talking here about independant nation states. We have no right to impose anything upon an independant state, regardless of how beneficial our actions might be for the population. But we do have a right to protect our shipping.

]]> By: Brett http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/12/pirates/comment-page-3/#comment-408455 Brett Fri, 13 Nov 2009 13:47:55 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23923#comment-408455 <i>" The real problem surely is the old one of imposing the conditions for modernity or treating the country as a theme park and museum. Either way you still have to deal with pirates who are attacking the modern world."</i> I think you're right. ” The real problem surely is the old one of imposing the conditions for modernity or treating the country as a theme park and museum. Either way you still have to deal with pirates who are attacking the modern world.”

I think you’re right.

]]> By: Graham http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/12/pirates/comment-page-3/#comment-408424 Graham Fri, 13 Nov 2009 13:20:06 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23923#comment-408424 <i>It starts with the restoration of civil society, which cannot be done while warlords challege the authority of the state. </I> Can you "restore" something that wasn't there to begin with? I'm taking civil society to mean non-state organisations etc. Surely if you have what is in many ways a pre-modern state you cannot have civil society (or you have an emerging intelligensia, such as the Doctor I mentioned) who can find no civil society with which to improve things and must move abroad. The real problem surely is the old one of imposing the conditions for modernity or treating the country as a theme park and museum. Either way you still have to deal with pirates who are attacking the modern world. It starts with the restoration of civil society, which cannot be done while warlords challege the authority of the state.

Can you “restore” something that wasn’t there to begin with? I’m taking civil society to mean non-state organisations etc. Surely if you have what is in many ways a pre-modern state you cannot have civil society (or you have an emerging intelligensia, such as the Doctor I mentioned) who can find no civil society with which to improve things and must move abroad. The real problem surely is the old one of imposing the conditions for modernity or treating the country as a theme park and museum. Either way you still have to deal with pirates who are attacking the modern world.

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