Comments on: The good and the bad in Afghanistan http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/03/the-good-and-the-bad-in-afghanistan/ Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear Fri, 10 Feb 2012 01:27:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Nyubi http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/03/the-good-and-the-bad-in-afghanistan/comment-page-1/#comment-404698 Nyubi Wed, 04 Nov 2009 04:35:50 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23578#comment-404698 Gordon, it's a good post Gordon, it’s a good post

]]> By: Ivan http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/03/the-good-and-the-bad-in-afghanistan/comment-page-1/#comment-404693 Ivan Wed, 04 Nov 2009 03:10:00 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23578#comment-404693 The Vietnam analogy is overdone. The South was overcome by the North Vietnamese army which of itself was capable of fielding over million men and was liberally supplied by the Soviet Union and China. But that alone would not have been enough to defeat the South. It required the treachery of the American Democrats who tied President Ford's hands by denying him any military means to back up South Vietnam. Later in justification they and their fellow traitors would parley their duplicity into so many books, movies and TV shows purpoting to show the American enterprise in Vietnam as a uniquely evil and senseles gambit. The Vietnam analogy is overdone. The South was overcome by the North Vietnamese army which of itself was capable of fielding over million men and was liberally supplied by the Soviet Union and China. But that alone would not have been enough to defeat the South. It required the treachery of the American Democrats who tied President Ford’s hands by denying him any military means to back up South Vietnam. Later in justification they and their fellow traitors would parley their duplicity into so many books, movies and TV shows purpoting to show the American enterprise in Vietnam as a uniquely evil and senseles gambit.

]]> By: Ivan http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/03/the-good-and-the-bad-in-afghanistan/comment-page-1/#comment-404669 Ivan Wed, 04 Nov 2009 00:46:44 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23578#comment-404669 Can anyone point to a respectable military operation conducted solely by the Afghans. Say involving a few thousand men? The truth is the large majority of Afghans are in this together, milking the West for what it is worth. They are Muslims, they'll have no truck with the infidels. Can anyone point to a respectable military operation conducted solely by the Afghans. Say involving a few thousand men? The truth is the large majority of Afghans are in this together, milking the West for what it is worth. They are Muslims, they’ll have no truck with the infidels.

]]> By: qidniz http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/03/the-good-and-the-bad-in-afghanistan/comment-page-1/#comment-404621 qidniz Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:52:58 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23578#comment-404621 <i>That was Dwight D. Eisenhower and Korea in 1953. The United States still has 28,500 troops on the Peninsula more than a half-century later, and it’s worked out fairly well.</i> Eh? The continued existence of the regime in North Korea is an example of things working out fairly well? Oh wait, it's the New York Times. Never mind. That was Dwight D. Eisenhower and Korea in 1953. The United States still has 28,500 troops on the Peninsula more than a half-century later, and it’s worked out fairly well.

Eh? The continued existence of the regime in North Korea is an example of things working out fairly well?

Oh wait, it’s the New York Times. Never mind.

]]> By: Nick (Ex South Africa) http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/03/the-good-and-the-bad-in-afghanistan/comment-page-1/#comment-404590 Nick (Ex South Africa) Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:56:20 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23578#comment-404590 As an aside, I noticed that the clearly very brave Staff Sgt Schmid, the ATO (Ammunitions technical officer) from the 'Commissariat Corps' killed at the weekend, sported a 'dettol badge' on his left shoulder denoting that he had completed his All Arms Commando Course too. As an aside, I noticed that the clearly very brave Staff Sgt Schmid, the ATO (Ammunitions technical officer) from the ‘Commissariat Corps’ killed at the weekend, sported a ‘dettol badge’ on his left shoulder denoting that he had completed his All Arms Commando Course too.

]]> By: David All http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/03/the-good-and-the-bad-in-afghanistan/comment-page-1/#comment-404585 David All Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:28:30 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23578#comment-404585 MMM; It sounds as if you have been talking to my Mom. She always criticizes me for looking on the down side of things just like my Dad does! Seriously, I hope you are right, MMM. MMM; It sounds as if you have been talking to my Mom. She always criticizes me for looking on the down side of things just like my Dad does!

Seriously, I hope you are right, MMM.

]]> By: MoreMediaNonsense http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/03/the-good-and-the-bad-in-afghanistan/comment-page-1/#comment-404582 MoreMediaNonsense Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:19:55 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23578#comment-404582 David All - No. There are vast differences in the firepower, technology and competence of the invading armies. If the US sent a decent size force to Afgahnistan now the Taliban would be irrelevant in a couple of years max especially now they are also being dealt with in Pakistan. IMO. I suspect you are a glass half empty man on this one... David All – No.

There are vast differences in the firepower, technology and competence of the invading armies. If the US sent a decent size force to Afgahnistan now the Taliban would be irrelevant in a couple of years max especially now they are also being dealt with in Pakistan. IMO.

I suspect you are a glass half empty man on this one…

]]> By: David All http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/03/the-good-and-the-bad-in-afghanistan/comment-page-1/#comment-404576 David All Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:54:05 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23578#comment-404576 MMM: Would you prefer analogies to the three unsucessful efforts(1839-1842, 1878-1881 & 1919-1920) by the British and the unsucessful ten year effort (1979-1989) by the late Soviet Union to conquer Afghanistan? MMM: Would you prefer analogies to the three unsucessful efforts(1839-1842, 1878-1881 & 1919-1920) by the British and the unsucessful ten year effort (1979-1989) by the late Soviet Union to conquer Afghanistan?

]]> By: MoreMediaNonsense http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/03/the-good-and-the-bad-in-afghanistan/comment-page-1/#comment-404569 MoreMediaNonsense Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:34:34 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23578#comment-404569 A better comparison is surely with something like the Malayan Emergency against Communist guerrillas in Malaysia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayan_Emergency A better comparison is surely with something like the Malayan Emergency against Communist guerrillas in Malaysia :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayan_Emergency

]]> By: Giles http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/03/the-good-and-the-bad-in-afghanistan/comment-page-1/#comment-404561 Giles Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:06:03 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23578#comment-404561 Regarding the NYT quote: One example Mr. Obama may want to think about: that of a U.S. president who reversed his harder-line campaign posture and settled for a compromise course that was attacked by conservative Republicans as “appeasement.” That was Dwight D. Eisenhower and Korea in 1953. The United States still has 28,500 troops on the Peninsula more than a half-century later, and it’s worked out fairly well.” That appears to be a staggeringly ill-judged parrellel. Abandoning Korea would have left the entire peninsula to the tender mercies of the communists. A full escalation would have led to all out war with China, and perhaps the USSR. The only reasonable option available was a compromise. (That worked because the communist actors were (fairly) rational states.) The situation in Afghanistan is unlikely to lead to Armageddon if 40,000 more troops are deployed. Nor is a compromise and long term ceasefire likely to be feasable against the Taliban and their allies. (And abandoning the country would be a severe blow to Western prestige and diplomacy, and a mammoth boon to Islamist morale, recruitment, and infrastructure). The risk from escalating in Afghanistan are vastly smaller than was the case in Korea, while the chance of a successful long term compromise ceasefire and token occupation force being succesful also appear vastly smaller. Regarding the NYT quote:

One example Mr. Obama may want to think about: that of a U.S. president who reversed his harder-line campaign posture and settled for a compromise course that was attacked by conservative Republicans as “appeasement.” That was Dwight D. Eisenhower and Korea in 1953. The United States still has 28,500 troops on the Peninsula more than a half-century later, and it’s worked out fairly well.”

That appears to be a staggeringly ill-judged parrellel.

Abandoning Korea would have left the entire peninsula to the tender mercies of the communists. A full escalation would have led to all out war with China, and perhaps the USSR. The only reasonable option available was a compromise. (That worked because the communist actors were (fairly) rational states.)

The situation in Afghanistan is unlikely to lead to Armageddon if 40,000 more troops are deployed. Nor is a compromise and long term ceasefire likely to be feasable against the Taliban and their allies. (And abandoning the country would be a severe blow to Western prestige and diplomacy, and a mammoth boon to Islamist morale, recruitment, and infrastructure).

The risk from escalating in Afghanistan are vastly smaller than was the case in Korea, while the chance of a successful long term compromise ceasefire and token occupation force being succesful also appear vastly smaller.

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