Comments on: Amnesty’s Well of Truth is Brackish http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/01/amnestys-well-of-truth-is-brackish/ Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear Fri, 10 Feb 2012 01:16:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: right on commander! http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/01/amnestys-well-of-truth-is-brackish/comment-page-1/#comment-404516 right on commander! Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:17:43 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23511#comment-404516 Is there anything in the report you agree with Johnathan? Is there anything in the report you agree with Johnathan?

]]> By: Philip http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/01/amnestys-well-of-truth-is-brackish/comment-page-1/#comment-404483 Philip Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:59:53 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23511#comment-404483 Mr Hoffman's piece seems a little biased. He argues that figures in the Amnesty report are wrong because they're taken from the (supposedly biased) Palestinian Authority, and corrects the figures by quoting from the (supposedly unbiased) Israeli Water Authority. But what reason can he give for such partiality? Isn't he simply making the same mistake he accuses Amnesty of making? Admittedly the Palestinian Authority may be difficult to trust - its interests are directly involved in this issue, but the same is true of the Israeli Water Authority. Gabriel, well done for making some sensible points. The Palestinian question is not simply about human development, it is about political emancipation and human rights. Even Hoffman acknowledges that Israel gives more water to its citizens than to its subjects in the Occupied Territories. The reason, of course, is that they don't get to vote in Israeli elections, a point Matt Yglesias notes: http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/10/water-rights-in-israel-palestine.php. To see the way Amnesty, an organisation that has done so much to ensure that all people, regardless of differences, are treated with respect, has been criticised in the way it has been here, is a really sad spectacle to see. Mr Hoffman’s piece seems a little biased. He argues that figures in the Amnesty report are wrong because they’re taken from the (supposedly biased) Palestinian Authority, and corrects the figures by quoting from the (supposedly unbiased) Israeli Water Authority. But what reason can he give for such partiality? Isn’t he simply making the same mistake he accuses Amnesty of making? Admittedly the Palestinian Authority may be difficult to trust – its interests are directly involved in this issue, but the same is true of the Israeli Water Authority.

Gabriel, well done for making some sensible points. The Palestinian question is not simply about human development, it is about political emancipation and human rights. Even Hoffman acknowledges that Israel gives more water to its citizens than to its subjects in the Occupied Territories. The reason, of course, is that they don’t get to vote in Israeli elections, a point Matt Yglesias notes: http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/10/water-rights-in-israel-palestine.php.

To see the way Amnesty, an organisation that has done so much to ensure that all people, regardless of differences, are treated with respect, has been criticised in the way it has been here, is a really sad spectacle to see.

]]> By: zkharya http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/01/amnestys-well-of-truth-is-brackish/comment-page-1/#comment-404023 zkharya Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:02:06 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23511#comment-404023 Worth a look: http://www.thejerusalemgiftshop.com/israelnews/editorial/38-editors-choice/2033-amnesty-water-report-waterboards-the-truth.html Worth a look:

http://www.thejerusalemgiftshop.com/israelnews/editorial/38-editors-choice/2033-amnesty-water-report-waterboards-the-truth.html

]]> By: Frank Adam http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/01/amnestys-well-of-truth-is-brackish/comment-page-1/#comment-403950 Frank Adam Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:36:56 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23511#comment-403950 The most important points in the discussion are: * growth of the population (6x) especially in Gaza thanks to the prosperity of jobs in Israel - till Oslo - and Israeli health measures which reduced infant mortality from up to 150 per mil (pre 1914 UK) in Gaza and 60 per mil in Hebron & Nablus districts (inter war pre-penicillin UK levels)to Western levels (20 per mil 60's & 70's, and 10 per mil now: 2000+). * Arab theft from Israeli laid water lines especially in the ex-Jordanian West Bank, and wild-cat well sinking especially in Gaza, which exploded (reports of 2000) since the PLO took over with Oslo. * failure, so far, of the PA especially in Samaria (Nablus District) to build more sewage works and recoup water as Israel & London do. * consequent over-drawing from the coastal aquifer in the Gaza Strip which is letting sea water force its way in and up the water table - freshwater "floats" on salt water whether sea or inland brackish. * In 1948 there were fewer than two million people between the Mediterranean & the R. Jordan/Arava. Now there are ten million probably eleven people on the same patch. * The quickest way to save water for all is to purify the sewage for irrigation as Israel has been doing succesfully for twenty years; and "double plumb" the grey water (spent on washing selves, dishes and laundry) to re-use it for toilet flushing before sewerage so saving a third of urban water usage. This is premised on Western domestic urban water use as: 1/3rd washing, 1/3rd WC's, 1/3rd cooking and drinking; and Israeli long-standing figures that a population needs 100 million cubic metres per million people (100 m3 per cap)for all NON agricultural uses while agriculture can use everything available. The most important points in the discussion are:
* growth of the population (6x) especially in Gaza thanks to the prosperity of jobs in Israel – till Oslo – and Israeli health measures which reduced infant mortality from up to 150 per mil (pre 1914 UK) in Gaza and 60 per mil in Hebron & Nablus districts (inter war pre-penicillin UK levels)to Western levels (20 per mil 60’s & 70’s, and 10 per mil now: 2000+).
* Arab theft from Israeli laid water lines especially in the ex-Jordanian West Bank, and wild-cat well sinking especially in Gaza, which exploded (reports of 2000) since the PLO took over with Oslo.
* failure, so far, of the PA especially in Samaria (Nablus District) to build more sewage works and recoup water as Israel & London do.
* consequent over-drawing from the coastal aquifer in the Gaza Strip which is letting sea water force its way in and up the water table – freshwater “floats” on salt water whether sea or inland brackish.
* In 1948 there were fewer than two million people between the Mediterranean & the R. Jordan/Arava. Now there are ten million probably eleven people on the same patch.
* The quickest way to save water for all is to purify the sewage for irrigation as Israel has been doing succesfully for twenty years; and “double plumb” the grey water (spent on washing selves, dishes and laundry) to re-use it for toilet flushing before sewerage so saving a third of urban water usage. This is premised on Western domestic urban water use as: 1/3rd washing, 1/3rd WC’s, 1/3rd cooking and drinking; and Israeli long-standing figures that a population needs 100 million cubic metres per million people (100 m3 per cap)for all NON agricultural uses while agriculture can use everything available.

]]> By: Huldah http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/01/amnestys-well-of-truth-is-brackish/comment-page-1/#comment-403936 Huldah Mon, 02 Nov 2009 10:31:26 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23511#comment-403936 @ Lee John Barnes "Those pesky palestinian slaves should be happy their Zionist masters have fed them, allowed them water and allowed them to have children in their plantation eh." The true Jew-hating face of the BNP peeks out from behind Nick Griffin's carefully constructed screen, eh? Better watch out, Lee. Nick can be ruthless with those who go off message! Remember Mark Collett? @ Lee John Barnes

“Those pesky palestinian slaves should be happy their Zionist masters have fed them, allowed them water and allowed them to have children in their plantation eh.”

The true Jew-hating face of the BNP peeks out from behind Nick Griffin’s carefully constructed screen, eh? Better watch out, Lee. Nick can be ruthless with those who go off message! Remember Mark Collett?

]]> By: Fran http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/01/amnestys-well-of-truth-is-brackish/comment-page-1/#comment-403934 Fran Mon, 02 Nov 2009 10:27:30 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23511#comment-403934 In Israel I learned that Israel's policy of forbidding private well owners from selling untreated and untested drinking water to entire villages without any checks on quality - the traditional method of obtaining and distributing water in Arab villages - has been misrepresented as Israel stealing Palestinian water/cutting off their water supplies. Furthermore, chaotic administration in many Israeli Arab villages means that rates are not paid resulting in public services - including water and electricity for public amenities such as street lighting - being inconsistently and poorly supplied - again this is misrepresented as discrimination against Arabs. Why cannot people accept that Palestinians, along with other human beings, have AGENCY. They are not impassive victims. What has happened to the billions of aid dollars poured into Palestinian coffers over decades? Where is the Palestinian infrastructure and amenities that should have flowed from it? Why has it not resulted in Palestinian jobs and food on Palestinian tables? Well actually, we know. It's flowed into private Swiss bank accounts and been used for the military and propaganda war on Israel being waged throughout the Arab world. Every time NGOs parrot Palestinian accusations they line up alongside racists who would like to see the Jewish state wiped out and its Jewish inhabitants thrown into the sea. In Israel I learned that Israel’s policy of forbidding private well owners from selling untreated and untested drinking water to entire villages without any checks on quality – the traditional method of obtaining and distributing water in Arab villages – has been misrepresented as Israel stealing Palestinian water/cutting off their water supplies.

Furthermore, chaotic administration in many Israeli Arab villages means that rates are not paid resulting in public services – including water and electricity for public amenities such as street lighting – being inconsistently and poorly supplied – again this is misrepresented as discrimination against Arabs.

Why cannot people accept that Palestinians, along with other human beings, have AGENCY. They are not impassive victims. What has happened to the billions of aid dollars poured into Palestinian coffers over decades? Where is the Palestinian infrastructure and amenities that should have flowed from it? Why has it not resulted in Palestinian jobs and food on Palestinian tables?

Well actually, we know. It’s flowed into private Swiss bank accounts and been used for the military and propaganda war on Israel being waged throughout the Arab world.

Every time NGOs parrot Palestinian accusations they line up alongside racists who would like to see the Jewish state wiped out and its Jewish inhabitants thrown into the sea.

]]> By: PetraMB http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/01/amnestys-well-of-truth-is-brackish/comment-page-1/#comment-403901 PetraMB Mon, 02 Nov 2009 07:57:35 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23511#comment-403901 Lbnaz -- maybe Ben White is now Amnesty's water expert? In any case, something's going down the drain.... Lbnaz — maybe Ben White is now Amnesty’s water expert? In any case, something’s going down the drain….

]]> By: Lbnaz http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/01/amnestys-well-of-truth-is-brackish/comment-page-1/#comment-403867 Lbnaz Mon, 02 Nov 2009 02:27:42 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23511#comment-403867 Where did Amnesty get its info from anyway? Apparently not from PA sources like the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics because <a href="http://tinyurl.com/yl8f6wh" rel="nofollow">the PCBS's data appears to contradict Amnesty's claims</a> Where did Amnesty get its info from anyway?

Apparently not from PA sources like the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics because the PCBS’s data appears to contradict Amnesty’s claims

]]> By: Isy http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/01/amnestys-well-of-truth-is-brackish/comment-page-1/#comment-403859 Isy Mon, 02 Nov 2009 01:10:08 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23511#comment-403859 What I don't get is: hasn't Amnesty heard of the new "water bill" which will heighten the cost of water according to the number of people in a house? According to this new bill, if a house uses more than a set in advance amount of water (calculated according to the number of residents in a home), they will have to pay a high fine. It's been discussed a lot in Israel. Shouldn't they have checked it out or something? mentioned it in their report (right next to the pictures of the swimming pools maybe ;) ) What I don’t get is: hasn’t Amnesty heard of the new “water bill” which will heighten the cost of water according to the number of people in a house? According to this new bill, if a house uses more than a set in advance amount of water (calculated according to the number of residents in a home), they will have to pay a high fine. It’s been discussed a lot in Israel. Shouldn’t they have checked it out or something? mentioned it in their report (right next to the pictures of the swimming pools maybe ;) )

]]> By: WB http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/01/amnestys-well-of-truth-is-brackish/comment-page-1/#comment-403787 WB Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:40:26 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=23511#comment-403787 Lordy, what a trashed brand Amnesty is these days. HRW too. The gangs that can't report straight. Lordy, what a trashed brand Amnesty is these days. HRW too. The gangs that can’t report straight.

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