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	<title>Comments on: Happy Honecker!</title>
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	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/08/happy-honecker/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: Alan Ji</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/08/happy-honecker/comment-page-1/#comment-396492</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Ji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 07:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=22512#comment-396492</guid>
		<description>nodrog      @   9 October 2009, 12:28 am 

&quot; a common sight was West German Mercedes and BMW’s lying kaput at the side of the potholed roads, while the Trabants rolled merrily on. So don’t mock the Trab!&quot;

So have you been to Liverpool; or Dundee?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nodrog      @   9 October 2009, 12:28 am </p>
<p>&#8221; a common sight was West German Mercedes and BMW’s lying kaput at the side of the potholed roads, while the Trabants rolled merrily on. So don’t mock the Trab!&#8221;</p>
<p>So have you been to Liverpool; or Dundee?</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/08/happy-honecker/comment-page-1/#comment-396227</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=22512#comment-396227</guid>
		<description>I have no real disagreement Tevya except for the part about Ley and the Labour front in terms of my point about the &quot;socialist&quot; elements of the Nazi party being effectively finished after 1933. (Of course Hitler still kept some show of &quot;socialism&quot; in order to keep parts of society onboard but as wiki (I&#039;m feeling lazy) has it:

&lt;i&gt;Hitler had no sympathy with the syndicalist tendencies of the NSBO, and in January 1934 a new Law for the Ordering of National Labour effectively suppressed independent working-class factory organisations, even Nazi ones, and put questions of wages and conditions in the hands of the Trustees of Labour (Treuhänder der Arbeit), dominated by the employers. At the same time Muchow was purged and Ley&#039;s control over the DAF re-established. The NSBO was completely suppressed and the DAF became little more than an arm of the state for the more efficient deployment and disciplining of labour to serve the needs of the regime, particularly its massive expansion of the arms industry.&lt;/i&gt;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ley</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no real disagreement Tevya except for the part about Ley and the Labour front in terms of my point about the &#8220;socialist&#8221; elements of the Nazi party being effectively finished after 1933. (Of course Hitler still kept some show of &#8220;socialism&#8221; in order to keep parts of society onboard but as wiki (I&#8217;m feeling lazy) has it:</p>
<p><i>Hitler had no sympathy with the syndicalist tendencies of the NSBO, and in January 1934 a new Law for the Ordering of National Labour effectively suppressed independent working-class factory organisations, even Nazi ones, and put questions of wages and conditions in the hands of the Trustees of Labour (Treuhänder der Arbeit), dominated by the employers. At the same time Muchow was purged and Ley&#8217;s control over the DAF re-established. The NSBO was completely suppressed and the DAF became little more than an arm of the state for the more efficient deployment and disciplining of labour to serve the needs of the regime, particularly its massive expansion of the arms industry.</i></p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ley" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ley</a></p>
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		<title>By: tevya</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/08/happy-honecker/comment-page-1/#comment-396009</link>
		<dc:creator>tevya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 10:21:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=22512#comment-396009</guid>
		<description>Graham, thanks. I think that&#039;s right - I was thinking in particular of Martin Lee&#039;s description of post-war West Germany.

Re:

&lt;blockquote&gt;perhaps it would be better to say that the nazis were a kind of socialists until the point where the conservative establishment started fellating them&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think that&#039;s right on one level, but kind of misses the point that what really distinguished Hitler and Stalin, and their regimes, was not an opinion about ownership of means of production, but a shared addiction to political violence and the abuse of law.

For a German policeman with 12 years experience working for the Nazis, starting work for Stalin in 1945 did not constitute much of a day-to-day change in his employment. Different rhetoric - same job.

There are also more direct social parallels - there was something very (national) socialist about Robert Ley&#039;s &quot;Strength through Joy&quot; organisation, for example:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;As of August 1 [1938], the great savings programme for the People&#039;s Car &#039;Strength-Through-Joy&#039; will begin. I herewith proclaim the conditions under which every working person, can acquire an automobile. 

&lt;b&gt;Each German, without distinction of class, profession, or property can become the purchaser of a Volkswagen. &lt;/b&gt;

The minimum weekly payment, insurance included, will be 5 marks. Regular payment of this amount will guarantee, after a period which is yet to be determined, the acquisition of a Volkswagen. The precise period will be determined upon the beginning of production. 

Application for the Volkswagen savings programme can be made at any office of the German Labour Front and of &#039;Strength Through Joy&#039;, where further details can also be obtained. Factories and shops can submit collective orders. 

A Volkswagen for every German—let that be our aim. That is what we want to achieve. Will all of you help in that; it shall be our way of saying &#039;thank you&#039; to the Führer.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graham, thanks. I think that&#8217;s right &#8211; I was thinking in particular of Martin Lee&#8217;s description of post-war West Germany.</p>
<p>Re:</p>
<blockquote><p>perhaps it would be better to say that the nazis were a kind of socialists until the point where the conservative establishment started fellating them</p></blockquote>
<p>I think that&#8217;s right on one level, but kind of misses the point that what really distinguished Hitler and Stalin, and their regimes, was not an opinion about ownership of means of production, but a shared addiction to political violence and the abuse of law.</p>
<p>For a German policeman with 12 years experience working for the Nazis, starting work for Stalin in 1945 did not constitute much of a day-to-day change in his employment. Different rhetoric &#8211; same job.</p>
<p>There are also more direct social parallels &#8211; there was something very (national) socialist about Robert Ley&#8217;s &#8220;Strength through Joy&#8221; organisation, for example:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;As of August 1 [1938], the great savings programme for the People&#8217;s Car &#8216;Strength-Through-Joy&#8217; will begin. I herewith proclaim the conditions under which every working person, can acquire an automobile. </p>
<p><b>Each German, without distinction of class, profession, or property can become the purchaser of a Volkswagen. </b></p>
<p>The minimum weekly payment, insurance included, will be 5 marks. Regular payment of this amount will guarantee, after a period which is yet to be determined, the acquisition of a Volkswagen. The precise period will be determined upon the beginning of production. </p>
<p>Application for the Volkswagen savings programme can be made at any office of the German Labour Front and of &#8216;Strength Through Joy&#8217;, where further details can also be obtained. Factories and shops can submit collective orders. </p>
<p>A Volkswagen for every German—let that be our aim. That is what we want to achieve. Will all of you help in that; it shall be our way of saying &#8216;thank you&#8217; to the Führer.
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Happy and Proud</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/08/happy-honecker/comment-page-1/#comment-395990</link>
		<dc:creator>Happy and Proud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 09:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=22512#comment-395990</guid>
		<description>Anaximanders, why did you feel the need to include the phrase &quot;neocon/Zionist&quot; into this discussion, which obviously has nothing to do whatsoever with Jews, Israel, or Zionism.  I realize your post was sarcastic, but I find your linkage of &quot;neocons&quot; and Zionists puzzling and disturbing, even if written sarcastically.  As you know or should know, Zionism is the connection of the Jewish people with their homeland.  It is unrelated to conservative, liberal, or any other type of right/left politics.  Even if you are writing from the rhetorical point of view of the far left, why repeat a falsehood often used to encourage anti-semitism?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anaximanders, why did you feel the need to include the phrase &#8220;neocon/Zionist&#8221; into this discussion, which obviously has nothing to do whatsoever with Jews, Israel, or Zionism.  I realize your post was sarcastic, but I find your linkage of &#8220;neocons&#8221; and Zionists puzzling and disturbing, even if written sarcastically.  As you know or should know, Zionism is the connection of the Jewish people with their homeland.  It is unrelated to conservative, liberal, or any other type of right/left politics.  Even if you are writing from the rhetorical point of view of the far left, why repeat a falsehood often used to encourage anti-semitism?</p>
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		<title>By: johannes</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/08/happy-honecker/comment-page-1/#comment-395975</link>
		<dc:creator>johannes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 08:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=22512#comment-395975</guid>
		<description>&gt; MfS officers also trained the secret police services in   
&gt; Mozambique, Angola, Mengistu’s Ethiopia, the ‘Peoples 
&gt; Democratic Republic’ of Yemen, and Saddam Hussein’s Iraq.

At least in the case of Ethiopia, they did not only act as trainers and avisors, but participated actively in torturing and murder. Germans being Germans, the Stasi personel serving Mengistu kept records and archives of their deeds, so it would have been perfectly possible to prosecute them after the fall of the GDR. The supreme court of reunited Germany, however, amnestied them all.
When speaking of Iraq, one should not forget Saddam&#039;s attack on Iran; morally, it might have been a fight of evil against evil, but from a legal point of view, it was still a war of aggression, and the role of East German helicopter pilots and the tactics developed by them in this war of aggression were crucial and might even have been strategically decisive, see here: http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_214.shtml</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; MfS officers also trained the secret police services in<br />
&gt; Mozambique, Angola, Mengistu’s Ethiopia, the ‘Peoples<br />
&gt; Democratic Republic’ of Yemen, and Saddam Hussein’s Iraq.</p>
<p>At least in the case of Ethiopia, they did not only act as trainers and avisors, but participated actively in torturing and murder. Germans being Germans, the Stasi personel serving Mengistu kept records and archives of their deeds, so it would have been perfectly possible to prosecute them after the fall of the GDR. The supreme court of reunited Germany, however, amnestied them all.<br />
When speaking of Iraq, one should not forget Saddam&#8217;s attack on Iran; morally, it might have been a fight of evil against evil, but from a legal point of view, it was still a war of aggression, and the role of East German helicopter pilots and the tactics developed by them in this war of aggression were crucial and might even have been strategically decisive, see here: <a href="http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_214.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_214.shtml</a></p>
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		<title>By: sackcloth and ashes</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/08/happy-honecker/comment-page-1/#comment-395962</link>
		<dc:creator>sackcloth and ashes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 07:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=22512#comment-395962</guid>
		<description>&#039;“It sent doctors and other medical staff to the front line in Vietnam, Mozambique and Angola. It gave engineering, educational and military support to many countries.”&#039;

MfS officers also trained the secret police services in Mozambique, Angola, Mengistu&#039;s Ethiopia, the &#039;Peoples Democratic Republic&#039; of Yemen, and Saddam Hussein&#039;s Iraq.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;“It sent doctors and other medical staff to the front line in Vietnam, Mozambique and Angola. It gave engineering, educational and military support to many countries.”&#8217;</p>
<p>MfS officers also trained the secret police services in Mozambique, Angola, Mengistu&#8217;s Ethiopia, the &#8216;Peoples Democratic Republic&#8217; of Yemen, and Saddam Hussein&#8217;s Iraq.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon d</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/08/happy-honecker/comment-page-1/#comment-395950</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon d</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 05:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=22512#comment-395950</guid>
		<description>I was quite suprised to find out that this week that recently deceased spanish civil war veteran, trade unionist and latterly senior citizens champion Jack Jones was a paid informer of the Soviet Union.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was quite suprised to find out that this week that recently deceased spanish civil war veteran, trade unionist and latterly senior citizens champion Jack Jones was a paid informer of the Soviet Union.</p>
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		<title>By: nodrog</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/08/happy-honecker/comment-page-1/#comment-395927</link>
		<dc:creator>nodrog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 23:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=22512#comment-395927</guid>
		<description>After the Wall came down the company for which I worked bought businesses in Leipzig and Halle. A colleague told me that a common sight was West German Mercedes and BMW&#039;s lying kaput at the side of the potholed roads, while the Trabants rolled merrily on. So don&#039;t mock the Trab!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After the Wall came down the company for which I worked bought businesses in Leipzig and Halle. A colleague told me that a common sight was West German Mercedes and BMW&#8217;s lying kaput at the side of the potholed roads, while the Trabants rolled merrily on. So don&#8217;t mock the Trab!</p>
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		<title>By: a</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/08/happy-honecker/comment-page-1/#comment-395919</link>
		<dc:creator>a</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 22:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=22512#comment-395919</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s drink to the fall of the wall - a great moment for the global left: amongst other things it led to the release of Nelson Mandela and the defeat of apartheid, the first left government in Italy since about 1920 and the stumbling towards a Israel - Palestine peace agreement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s drink to the fall of the wall &#8211; a great moment for the global left: amongst other things it led to the release of Nelson Mandela and the defeat of apartheid, the first left government in Italy since about 1920 and the stumbling towards a Israel &#8211; Palestine peace agreement.</p>
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		<title>By: a</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/08/happy-honecker/comment-page-1/#comment-395916</link>
		<dc:creator>a</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 22:42:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=22512#comment-395916</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;And of course the legacy successor parties to the old Eastern European Communist Parties are now happy companion parties&lt;/i&gt;

And Angela Merkel was a member of a &quot;front&quot; party. Burn the witch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>And of course the legacy successor parties to the old Eastern European Communist Parties are now happy companion parties</i></p>
<p>And Angela Merkel was a member of a &#8220;front&#8221; party. Burn the witch.</p>
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