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	<title>Comments on: Palestinian Oktoberfest</title>
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	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/06/palestinian-oktoberfest/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: Lynne T</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/06/palestinian-oktoberfest/comment-page-1/#comment-395467</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynne T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=22421#comment-395467</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with Ohad. Growing the Palestinian economy is not an act of resistance. Developing the economies of the West Bank and Gaza to everyone&#039;s benefit has been something Israel has tried to help citizens of the territories do since &#039;67. It&#039;s the &quot;resistors&quot; who have done their level best to pee in the well.

George Gilder *
Silicon Israel: How market capitalism saved the Jewish state
http://www.city-journal.org/2009/19_3_jewish-capitalism.html

[...]

Netanyahu’s vision is an Israel that, as a global financial center, could transform the economics of the Middle East. Israel could become a Hong Kong of the desert. Just as Hong Kong ultimately reshaped the Chinese economy in its own image when Deng Xiaoping mimicked its free economy, Israel could become a force for economic liberation in the Middle East, reaching out to Palestinians and other Arabs with the blandishments of commercial opportunity. After all, it has long been Israeli enterprise that has attracted Arabs to Palestine. Between 1967, when Israel took over the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and 1987, when the first intifada erupted, those two territories were one of the fastest-growing economies on earth. GDP surged 30 percent a year for a decade, the Arab population nearly tripled, six new universities were launched, and Arab longevity jumped from 43 years to 74.

* George Gilder is the founding director of Gilder Technology Associates, a venture capital fund, and a contributing editor of Forbes. His books have sold more than 2 million copies worldwide. The newest is The Israel Test.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Ohad. Growing the Palestinian economy is not an act of resistance. Developing the economies of the West Bank and Gaza to everyone&#8217;s benefit has been something Israel has tried to help citizens of the territories do since &#8216;67. It&#8217;s the &#8220;resistors&#8221; who have done their level best to pee in the well.</p>
<p>George Gilder *<br />
Silicon Israel: How market capitalism saved the Jewish state<br />
<a href="http://www.city-journal.org/2009/19_3_jewish-capitalism.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.city-journal.org/2009/19_3_jewish-capitalism.html</a></p>
<p>[...]</p>
<p>Netanyahu’s vision is an Israel that, as a global financial center, could transform the economics of the Middle East. Israel could become a Hong Kong of the desert. Just as Hong Kong ultimately reshaped the Chinese economy in its own image when Deng Xiaoping mimicked its free economy, Israel could become a force for economic liberation in the Middle East, reaching out to Palestinians and other Arabs with the blandishments of commercial opportunity. After all, it has long been Israeli enterprise that has attracted Arabs to Palestine. Between 1967, when Israel took over the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and 1987, when the first intifada erupted, those two territories were one of the fastest-growing economies on earth. GDP surged 30 percent a year for a decade, the Arab population nearly tripled, six new universities were launched, and Arab longevity jumped from 43 years to 74.</p>
<p>* George Gilder is the founding director of Gilder Technology Associates, a venture capital fund, and a contributing editor of Forbes. His books have sold more than 2 million copies worldwide. The newest is The Israel Test.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Frenkel</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/06/palestinian-oktoberfest/comment-page-1/#comment-395406</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Frenkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 10:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=22421#comment-395406</guid>
		<description>Well, I am glad to learn that there is a micro-brewery in the Golan. another excellent reason not to give it back to the Ba&#039;athi dictator/human toothbrush.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I am glad to learn that there is a micro-brewery in the Golan. another excellent reason not to give it back to the Ba&#8217;athi dictator/human toothbrush.</p>
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		<title>By: MoreMediaNonsense</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/06/palestinian-oktoberfest/comment-page-1/#comment-395344</link>
		<dc:creator>MoreMediaNonsense</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 07:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=22421#comment-395344</guid>
		<description>Encouraging news - perhaps what we need is a CAMRA and HP sponsored Middle East themed beer festival.

There are a couple of breweries in Egypt I think and the following in Israel/WB :

&quot;Smaller brewers are the Tel Aviv Brewhouse in Tel Aviv;[3] the Ramat Ha&#039;Golan micro brewery,[4] Cafe En-Hod near the northern city of Haifa; the Dancing Camel Brewing Company in Tel Aviv;[5] and the Palestinian Taybeh Brewery in the village of Taybeh in the west bank (near Ramallah).[6]&quot;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_in_Israel</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Encouraging news &#8211; perhaps what we need is a CAMRA and HP sponsored Middle East themed beer festival.</p>
<p>There are a couple of breweries in Egypt I think and the following in Israel/WB :</p>
<p>&#8220;Smaller brewers are the Tel Aviv Brewhouse in Tel Aviv;[3] the Ramat Ha&#8217;Golan micro brewery,[4] Cafe En-Hod near the northern city of Haifa; the Dancing Camel Brewing Company in Tel Aviv;[5] and the Palestinian Taybeh Brewery in the village of Taybeh in the west bank (near Ramallah).[6]&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_in_Israel" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_in_Israel</a></p>
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		<title>By: Josh Scholar</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/06/palestinian-oktoberfest/comment-page-1/#comment-395309</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Scholar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 02:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=22421#comment-395309</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If this is any kind of resistance it is resistance to Hamas, who, as well as being evil bastards couldn’t run a piss up in a brewery.&lt;/i&gt;

I wanted to say that, but I couldn&#039;t remember the exact phrase since it&#039;s a Britishism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If this is any kind of resistance it is resistance to Hamas, who, as well as being evil bastards couldn’t run a piss up in a brewery.</i></p>
<p>I wanted to say that, but I couldn&#8217;t remember the exact phrase since it&#8217;s a Britishism.</p>
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		<title>By: Old Peculier</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/06/palestinian-oktoberfest/comment-page-1/#comment-395243</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Peculier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=22421#comment-395243</guid>
		<description>If this is any kind of resistance it is resistance to Hamas, who, as well as being evil bastards couldn&#039;t run a piss up in a brewery.

L&#039;chaim!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If this is any kind of resistance it is resistance to Hamas, who, as well as being evil bastards couldn&#8217;t run a piss up in a brewery.</p>
<p>L&#8217;chaim!</p>
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		<title>By: Bruno Mota</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/06/palestinian-oktoberfest/comment-page-1/#comment-395223</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruno Mota</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=22421#comment-395223</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7&amp;section=0&amp;article=127040&amp;d=4&amp;m=10&amp;y=2009&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This guy&lt;/a&gt; is talking a lot of sense, in this and other articles.
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&quot;The vigorous and proactive state institution-building program proposed by Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad is the most responsible and creative idea the Palestinians have put on the table since they accepted a two-state solution. The Quartet has just endorsed it. The United States should now mobilize its resources to make it work, and Israel would be wise not to stand in the way.&quot;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Note also that this article was published in &#039;Arab News&#039; and reproduced un Al Arabiya&#039;s website, i.e., in Saudi-owned media, which seems to suggest the Saudis, along with the quartet, the US, the UN, the Jordanians and the Palestinian PM office, as well as  (conditionally), the Israelis, are all behind this bottom-up institution building.

As for whether an Oktoberfest can be &#039;resistance&#039;: Over the years the concept of &#039;resistance&#039; as  put forward by (for example) Hamas and Hizbollah has come to signify an atavistic opposition to Israeli legitimacy and actions. The so-called &#039;culture of resistance&#039; that these groups seek to stimulate turns this concept into the central and overriding imperative of the entire society. 

This is a particularly corrosive concept, since (taken to its logical consequence), the &#039;resisters&#039; build nothing, create nothing, invent nothing, originate nothing; they merely resist whatever is it that Israel happens to be doing. In particular, the resisters are not particularly interested in the positive steps necessary for the creation of a successful Palestinian state.

In this context, I think it is great news that the concept of resistance is being appropriated by people who are actually doing something positive for the Palestinians. This is resistance in the sense that, unfortunately, the cessation of violence and the decision to live side by side with Israel on the part of the Palestinians will not automatically result in the creation of a Palestinian state. At the same time, the building of a vibrant economy and civil society in the West Bank will in various ways undermine the occupation (justified or not on security grounds) and the colonization (unjustifiable in any case, IMO) of the WB. 

Last, but not least, this is also resistance in the sense that it undermines Hamas and their ilk; it undermines what they stand for, it undermines their tactics, and it undermines what they hope to accomplish.

In fact, one of best things about Palestinian institution- and civil society-building is that, if succesful, this process will undermine the occupation, and at the same time enhance Israel&#039;s security. For a long time many Israelis who were not particularly keen on colonizing every last hillock with biblical connotations supported the occupation, or elements thereof, for security reasons (and groups like Hamas did their level best to enhance such perceptions). A Palestinian strategy  that makes continuing  occupation antithetical to Israeli security is potentially a game changer, and if properly supported could succeed even in the face of strong Israeli objections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7&amp;section=0&amp;article=127040&amp;d=4&amp;m=10&amp;y=2009" rel="nofollow">This guy</a> is talking a lot of sense, in this and other articles.</p>
<blockquote><p>
&#8220;The vigorous and proactive state institution-building program proposed by Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad is the most responsible and creative idea the Palestinians have put on the table since they accepted a two-state solution. The Quartet has just endorsed it. The United States should now mobilize its resources to make it work, and Israel would be wise not to stand in the way.&#8221;
</p></blockquote>
<p>Note also that this article was published in &#8216;Arab News&#8217; and reproduced un Al Arabiya&#8217;s website, i.e., in Saudi-owned media, which seems to suggest the Saudis, along with the quartet, the US, the UN, the Jordanians and the Palestinian PM office, as well as  (conditionally), the Israelis, are all behind this bottom-up institution building.</p>
<p>As for whether an Oktoberfest can be &#8216;resistance&#8217;: Over the years the concept of &#8216;resistance&#8217; as  put forward by (for example) Hamas and Hizbollah has come to signify an atavistic opposition to Israeli legitimacy and actions. The so-called &#8216;culture of resistance&#8217; that these groups seek to stimulate turns this concept into the central and overriding imperative of the entire society. </p>
<p>This is a particularly corrosive concept, since (taken to its logical consequence), the &#8216;resisters&#8217; build nothing, create nothing, invent nothing, originate nothing; they merely resist whatever is it that Israel happens to be doing. In particular, the resisters are not particularly interested in the positive steps necessary for the creation of a successful Palestinian state.</p>
<p>In this context, I think it is great news that the concept of resistance is being appropriated by people who are actually doing something positive for the Palestinians. This is resistance in the sense that, unfortunately, the cessation of violence and the decision to live side by side with Israel on the part of the Palestinians will not automatically result in the creation of a Palestinian state. At the same time, the building of a vibrant economy and civil society in the West Bank will in various ways undermine the occupation (justified or not on security grounds) and the colonization (unjustifiable in any case, IMO) of the WB. </p>
<p>Last, but not least, this is also resistance in the sense that it undermines Hamas and their ilk; it undermines what they stand for, it undermines their tactics, and it undermines what they hope to accomplish.</p>
<p>In fact, one of best things about Palestinian institution- and civil society-building is that, if succesful, this process will undermine the occupation, and at the same time enhance Israel&#8217;s security. For a long time many Israelis who were not particularly keen on colonizing every last hillock with biblical connotations supported the occupation, or elements thereof, for security reasons (and groups like Hamas did their level best to enhance such perceptions). A Palestinian strategy  that makes continuing  occupation antithetical to Israeli security is potentially a game changer, and if properly supported could succeed even in the face of strong Israeli objections.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Frenkel</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/06/palestinian-oktoberfest/comment-page-1/#comment-395222</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Frenkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=22421#comment-395222</guid>
		<description>Taybeh is much, much better than Maccabee and is available on tap in a number of bars in Jerusalem (west and east.) And yes, the growth of the economy in the WB is good for both sides.  It wont, however, in my view, make negotiating final status issues between the sides any easier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taybeh is much, much better than Maccabee and is available on tap in a number of bars in Jerusalem (west and east.) And yes, the growth of the economy in the WB is good for both sides.  It wont, however, in my view, make negotiating final status issues between the sides any easier.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Camel</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/06/palestinian-oktoberfest/comment-page-1/#comment-395100</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Camel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 18:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=22421#comment-395100</guid>
		<description>Good news, from an unexpected quarter. Flourishing businesses, with more jobs and more money in the economy, must surely be good for the Palestinians themselves and for Israel too. 

David T, is Täybeh as good as Maccabee? (Which is a personal favourite of mine -- don&#039; t care so much for Goldstar.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good news, from an unexpected quarter. Flourishing businesses, with more jobs and more money in the economy, must surely be good for the Palestinians themselves and for Israel too. </p>
<p>David T, is Täybeh as good as Maccabee? (Which is a personal favourite of mine &#8212; don&#8217; t care so much for Goldstar.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jako</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/06/palestinian-oktoberfest/comment-page-1/#comment-395087</link>
		<dc:creator>Jako</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=22421#comment-395087</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; &quot;However polls find a far higher desire for peace among the Palestinians than ever so let us hope - fervently!&quot; &lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;ll drink to that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> &#8220;However polls find a far higher desire for peace among the Palestinians than ever so let us hope &#8211; fervently!&#8221; </i></p>
<p>I&#8217;ll drink to that.</p>
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		<title>By: margie</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/10/06/palestinian-oktoberfest/comment-page-1/#comment-395067</link>
		<dc:creator>margie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:26:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=22421#comment-395067</guid>
		<description>An established economy should be the best argument against intifada and uproar, however don&#039;t hold your breath - the Palestinians were enjoying their period of highest economic prosperity when they instituted the first intifada.

However polls find a far higher desire for peace among the Palestinians than ever so let us hope - fervently!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An established economy should be the best argument against intifada and uproar, however don&#8217;t hold your breath &#8211; the Palestinians were enjoying their period of highest economic prosperity when they instituted the first intifada.</p>
<p>However polls find a far higher desire for peace among the Palestinians than ever so let us hope &#8211; fervently!</p>
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