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	<title>Comments on: Look who&#8217;s defending Medicare now</title>
	<atom:link href="http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/19/look-whos-defending-medicare-now/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/19/look-whos-defending-medicare-now/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: hasan prishtina</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/19/look-whos-defending-medicare-now/comment-page-1/#comment-380387</link>
		<dc:creator>hasan prishtina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20635#comment-380387</guid>
		<description>Other Republicans may defend Medicare but &lt;a href=&#039;http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/vp/32482749#32482749&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; Tom DeLay demands the scrapping of Medicare, Medicaid and Schip. Incidentally, at about 5:00 he comes out as a birther, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Other Republicans may defend Medicare but <a href='http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/vp/32482749#32482749' rel="nofollow">here</a> Tom DeLay demands the scrapping of Medicare, Medicaid and Schip. Incidentally, at about 5:00 he comes out as a birther, too.</p>
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		<title>By: AKUS</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/19/look-whos-defending-medicare-now/comment-page-1/#comment-380096</link>
		<dc:creator>AKUS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 02:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20635#comment-380096</guid>
		<description>I believe, based on a town hall meeting with Barney Frank broadcast on Israel&#039;s IBA news, you can add Lyndon Larouche fans (idiots) to those opposing the Obama plan. 

A young woman Lariuchenik accused Obama of hatching a &quot;Nazi plan&quot; like Hitler&#039;s plan to get rid of the incapable and infirm. Frank&#039;s rejoinder was say he would return to his ethnic roots (I&#039;m embarrassed to say she was fairly clearly a young Jewish &quot;intellectual&quot;) and ask her which planet she normally inhabits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe, based on a town hall meeting with Barney Frank broadcast on Israel&#8217;s IBA news, you can add Lyndon Larouche fans (idiots) to those opposing the Obama plan. </p>
<p>A young woman Lariuchenik accused Obama of hatching a &#8220;Nazi plan&#8221; like Hitler&#8217;s plan to get rid of the incapable and infirm. Frank&#8217;s rejoinder was say he would return to his ethnic roots (I&#8217;m embarrassed to say she was fairly clearly a young Jewish &#8220;intellectual&#8221;) and ask her which planet she normally inhabits.</p>
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		<title>By: hasan prishtina</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/19/look-whos-defending-medicare-now/comment-page-1/#comment-380011</link>
		<dc:creator>hasan prishtina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20635#comment-380011</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Not mentioned so far when comparing costs between the US and Euro-style systems is the fact that the wages of Physicians and nurses–especially nurses–are kept at the Peon level compared to the US,&lt;/i&gt;

Average salary for Registered Nurse 3+ years in US: $47110-$59600 
Average salary for equivalent nurse in Switzerland: $51852-$63889
Average salary for all nurses in Ireland: $78,571 

(sources: Allied Physicians (US), ILO (Switzerland) &amp; The Sunday Business Post (Ireland)) 

According to Nursing Pay, British salaries for an established Registered Nurse range from $36917-$92593, described by David Cameron recently, and correctly, as a &quot;disgrace.&quot;

Medical staff are imported into the richer countries of Europe from the rest of the world a) because there is a massive shortage of local trained staff and, b) because rich countries usually pay better. It is a matter of embarrassment to Britain that there are more Malawian doctors in Greater Manchester than the whole of Malawi.   

&lt;i&gt;nurse’s salaries are the single biggest operational cost item in a hospital’s budget. Where do you think the bean-counter’s are going to look first?&lt;/i&gt;

This is true in every country in the OECD according to their reports; the US is no exception. So when the baby boomers retire, The US will have to import a great many nurses, just like everyone else and maybe pay them better than they do now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Not mentioned so far when comparing costs between the US and Euro-style systems is the fact that the wages of Physicians and nurses–especially nurses–are kept at the Peon level compared to the US,</i></p>
<p>Average salary for Registered Nurse 3+ years in US: $47110-$59600<br />
Average salary for equivalent nurse in Switzerland: $51852-$63889<br />
Average salary for all nurses in Ireland: $78,571 </p>
<p>(sources: Allied Physicians (US), ILO (Switzerland) &amp; The Sunday Business Post (Ireland)) </p>
<p>According to Nursing Pay, British salaries for an established Registered Nurse range from $36917-$92593, described by David Cameron recently, and correctly, as a &#8220;disgrace.&#8221;</p>
<p>Medical staff are imported into the richer countries of Europe from the rest of the world a) because there is a massive shortage of local trained staff and, b) because rich countries usually pay better. It is a matter of embarrassment to Britain that there are more Malawian doctors in Greater Manchester than the whole of Malawi.   </p>
<p><i>nurse’s salaries are the single biggest operational cost item in a hospital’s budget. Where do you think the bean-counter’s are going to look first?</i></p>
<p>This is true in every country in the OECD according to their reports; the US is no exception. So when the baby boomers retire, The US will have to import a great many nurses, just like everyone else and maybe pay them better than they do now.</p>
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		<title>By: virgil xenophon</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/19/look-whos-defending-medicare-now/comment-page-1/#comment-379921</link>
		<dc:creator>virgil xenophon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20635#comment-379921</guid>
		<description>Not mentioned so far when comparing costs between the US and Euro-style systems is the fact that the wages of Physicians and nurses--especially nurses--are kept at the Peon level compared to the US, whichb goes a long way to explain the &quot;efficiencies&quot; of these national systems and the brain/tech drain as Drs and Nurses emigrate to the US for higher wages and thus the need by the UK, for example, to import Middle-Eastern physicians with all the attendant security problems that brings in it&#039;s train as has already been &quot;loudly&quot; demonstrated.  

And the embarass by the American Nurses Assoc. of the Obama plan is especially savagely ironic, as once in thrall, in effect, to the government as civil servants, a cap on their salaries will soon inevitably follow as cost containment measures will follow as night follows day. Hospitals are all about nurses, not physicians. As the single 24/7/365 health-care delivery staffing mechanism, nurse&#039;s salaries are the single biggest operational cost item in a hospital&#039;s budget. Where do you think the bean-counter&#039;s are going to look first?

So--if one want&#039;s to guarantee a dramatic worsening of an already existing physician and nursing shortage in the US just implement Obamacare--and then look around and ask just who is going to provide quality health-care when the current generational cohort &quot;bulge in the snake&quot; of baby-boomer nurses and physicians retire in droves shortly (as they are just beginning to--I am 65, born in &#039;44) and the &quot;best and the brightest&quot; eschew socialized medicine for more lucrative and less physically demanding/mentally draining jobs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not mentioned so far when comparing costs between the US and Euro-style systems is the fact that the wages of Physicians and nurses&#8211;especially nurses&#8211;are kept at the Peon level compared to the US, whichb goes a long way to explain the &#8220;efficiencies&#8221; of these national systems and the brain/tech drain as Drs and Nurses emigrate to the US for higher wages and thus the need by the UK, for example, to import Middle-Eastern physicians with all the attendant security problems that brings in it&#8217;s train as has already been &#8220;loudly&#8221; demonstrated.  </p>
<p>And the embarass by the American Nurses Assoc. of the Obama plan is especially savagely ironic, as once in thrall, in effect, to the government as civil servants, a cap on their salaries will soon inevitably follow as cost containment measures will follow as night follows day. Hospitals are all about nurses, not physicians. As the single 24/7/365 health-care delivery staffing mechanism, nurse&#8217;s salaries are the single biggest operational cost item in a hospital&#8217;s budget. Where do you think the bean-counter&#8217;s are going to look first?</p>
<p>So&#8211;if one want&#8217;s to guarantee a dramatic worsening of an already existing physician and nursing shortage in the US just implement Obamacare&#8211;and then look around and ask just who is going to provide quality health-care when the current generational cohort &#8220;bulge in the snake&#8221; of baby-boomer nurses and physicians retire in droves shortly (as they are just beginning to&#8211;I am 65, born in &#8216;44) and the &#8220;best and the brightest&#8221; eschew socialized medicine for more lucrative and less physically demanding/mentally draining jobs.</p>
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		<title>By: A Ruckus of Dogs</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/19/look-whos-defending-medicare-now/comment-page-1/#comment-379844</link>
		<dc:creator>A Ruckus of Dogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20635#comment-379844</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;How many official languages does the US have? &lt;/i&gt;


Actually, none.  The US has no official language, though the vast majority speak English.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>How many official languages does the US have? </i></p>
<p>Actually, none.  The US has no official language, though the vast majority speak English.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Murphy</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/19/look-whos-defending-medicare-now/comment-page-1/#comment-379833</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20635#comment-379833</guid>
		<description>hasan prishtina,

Of course he hasn&#039;t been to Switzerland, the fact he thinks its ethnically homogeneous is a dead giveway. The French, Italian and German speaking Swiss&#039; would find that a very interesting observation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hasan prishtina,</p>
<p>Of course he hasn&#8217;t been to Switzerland, the fact he thinks its ethnically homogeneous is a dead giveway. The French, Italian and German speaking Swiss&#8217; would find that a very interesting observation.</p>
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		<title>By: Gene</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/19/look-whos-defending-medicare-now/comment-page-1/#comment-379764</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:09:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20635#comment-379764</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;What the f*ck was the point of this post.&lt;/i&gt; 

To annoy you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>What the f*ck was the point of this post.</i> </p>
<p>To annoy you?</p>
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		<title>By: Gene</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/19/look-whos-defending-medicare-now/comment-page-1/#comment-379762</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20635#comment-379762</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Interesting - the clip was from 1961, when Regan was still a Democrat.&lt;/i&gt;

Reagan formally became a Republican in 1962, but he had supported the Republican candidates for president in 1952, 1956 and 1960.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Interesting &#8211; the clip was from 1961, when Regan was still a Democrat.</i></p>
<p>Reagan formally became a Republican in 1962, but he had supported the Republican candidates for president in 1952, 1956 and 1960.</p>
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		<title>By: hasan prishtina</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/19/look-whos-defending-medicare-now/comment-page-1/#comment-379739</link>
		<dc:creator>hasan prishtina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:22:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20635#comment-379739</guid>
		<description>should read: &quot;Southern whites to the Republic&lt;i&gt;ans&lt;/i&gt;.&quot; Apologies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>should read: &#8220;Southern whites to the Republic<i>ans</i>.&#8221; Apologies.</p>
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		<title>By: hasan prishtina</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/19/look-whos-defending-medicare-now/comment-page-1/#comment-379727</link>
		<dc:creator>hasan prishtina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20635#comment-379727</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Besides, comparisons to the Swiss model, which is a culturally and ethnically homogeneous country&lt;/i&gt;

Have you ever been to Switzerland? How many official languages does the US have? 

Not quite, I admit, on the same scale of disingenuity as claiming that because the Republicans voted more for civil rights legislation initiated by LBJ, that the Democratic party remains the party of the KKK. A little matter of the mass defection of Southern whites to the Republic, Strom Thurmond, David Duke and all, exposes the absurdity of that one. 

&lt;i&gt;“The costs have increased in the last 10 years by 50 to 60 percent,” says Roland Brunner, a banker from Baden”&lt;/i&gt;

The costs of healthcare per person in the USA have risen 66.9% during the same period. The data for the States comes from the US Department of Health and Human Services, not the anecdotal evidence of a banker in Switzerland; in fact it rose by 47.0% (Swiss Federal Office of Public Health). 

As it happens, Swiss medical care is rather expensive by European standards, healthcare per person being as much as 66.3% of the cost of what it is in the States.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Besides, comparisons to the Swiss model, which is a culturally and ethnically homogeneous country</i></p>
<p>Have you ever been to Switzerland? How many official languages does the US have? </p>
<p>Not quite, I admit, on the same scale of disingenuity as claiming that because the Republicans voted more for civil rights legislation initiated by LBJ, that the Democratic party remains the party of the KKK. A little matter of the mass defection of Southern whites to the Republic, Strom Thurmond, David Duke and all, exposes the absurdity of that one. </p>
<p><i>“The costs have increased in the last 10 years by 50 to 60 percent,” says Roland Brunner, a banker from Baden”</i></p>
<p>The costs of healthcare per person in the USA have risen 66.9% during the same period. The data for the States comes from the US Department of Health and Human Services, not the anecdotal evidence of a banker in Switzerland; in fact it rose by 47.0% (Swiss Federal Office of Public Health). </p>
<p>As it happens, Swiss medical care is rather expensive by European standards, healthcare per person being as much as 66.3% of the cost of what it is in the States.</p>
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