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	<title>Comments on: Human Rights Watch and the Veteran Extremist</title>
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	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/17/human-rights-watch-and-the-veteran-extremist/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/17/human-rights-watch-and-the-veteran-extremist/comment-page-5/#comment-383244</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 23:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20560#comment-383244</guid>
		<description>&quot;HRW is part of the Inquisition against the Jewish State.&quot;

In a way.  More accurately remnants of the Soviet Anti-Zionism campaign still rattling around in Western European minds. Plus, for HRW, a fund raising technique aimed at those same minds. 

&quot;So, a good guy.&quot;

It&#039;s sad that you have to say that still.  I know you encounter many English (not Scottish, Welsh) people who perfunctorily question and tune out anything that comes from an Israeli source.  I encounter them too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;HRW is part of the Inquisition against the Jewish State.&#8221;</p>
<p>In a way.  More accurately remnants of the Soviet Anti-Zionism campaign still rattling around in Western European minds. Plus, for HRW, a fund raising technique aimed at those same minds. </p>
<p>&#8220;So, a good guy.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s sad that you have to say that still.  I know you encounter many English (not Scottish, Welsh) people who perfunctorily question and tune out anything that comes from an Israeli source.  I encounter them too.</p>
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		<title>By: telavivit</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/17/human-rights-watch-and-the-veteran-extremist/comment-page-5/#comment-380493</link>
		<dc:creator>telavivit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20560#comment-380493</guid>
		<description>http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AWXYV56qlacKZGdwYzRoYzlfMTMzaG5mamJ3Y2o&amp;hl=en</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AWXYV56qlacKZGdwYzRoYzlfMTMzaG5mamJ3Y2o&amp;hl=en" rel="nofollow">http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AWXYV56qlacKZGdwYzRoYzlfMTMzaG5mamJ3Y2o&amp;hl=en</a></p>
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		<title>By: David All</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/17/human-rights-watch-and-the-veteran-extremist/comment-page-5/#comment-379663</link>
		<dc:creator>David All</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 23:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20560#comment-379663</guid>
		<description>Doc Martyn and Commodities Interest: &quot;So you would not object to a former member of the BNP becoming a school teacher, or a police officer or an MP then; on the grounds that he had given it up?&quot;

Yes, if the person could show that he or she no longer believed in the BNP and its racism and had completely turned against it, I would have no problem having a former member of the BNP as a teacher, police officer or elected public official. Of course, this turning away from the BNP and other racist groups would have to be shown as sincere and geniune and not just a tactical maneuver to publicily disassociate from an unpopular extremist group.   

(Sorry this is late, I have been away for two days and did not have a chance to reply untill this evening.) 

As for Joe Stork, although the evidence is mixed, he may still more or less believe what he wrote in the 1970s. At the very least he should be asked to make clear his current views on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict before he continues on as head of HRW&#039;s Middle East division.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doc Martyn and Commodities Interest: &#8220;So you would not object to a former member of the BNP becoming a school teacher, or a police officer or an MP then; on the grounds that he had given it up?&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, if the person could show that he or she no longer believed in the BNP and its racism and had completely turned against it, I would have no problem having a former member of the BNP as a teacher, police officer or elected public official. Of course, this turning away from the BNP and other racist groups would have to be shown as sincere and geniune and not just a tactical maneuver to publicily disassociate from an unpopular extremist group.   </p>
<p>(Sorry this is late, I have been away for two days and did not have a chance to reply untill this evening.) </p>
<p>As for Joe Stork, although the evidence is mixed, he may still more or less believe what he wrote in the 1970s. At the very least he should be asked to make clear his current views on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict before he continues on as head of HRW&#8217;s Middle East division.</p>
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		<title>By: Lbnaz</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/17/human-rights-watch-and-the-veteran-extremist/comment-page-5/#comment-379561</link>
		<dc:creator>Lbnaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20560#comment-379561</guid>
		<description>SO Muffin look in the mirror. You put words in my mouth which have no basis in reality, allege things about me which are all bs, all because apparently you can&#039;t take any criticism whatsoever. I expect a full retraction from you for all the slander and abuse you heaped upon me. Nothing less and nothing more. 

And maybe it&#039;s about time you check your own image and reputation which you damaged by your despicable performance on this thread and to which sadly you seem to be entirely oblivious. Look in the mirror SO Muffin. Your behaviour on this thread toward me was shameful and entirely baseless. And your efforts at justifying your behaviour, by further attempting to psychologize me and put words in my mouth, only reveals you to be a conceited jerk who is too insecure, thin skinned and emotionally immature to deal with being called out on your own prevarications and poorly argued claims: namely your asserting that mainstream Israeli media shared a consensus that 400 and fewer Hamas combatants were killed during Cast Lead and your indifference to articulating how the IDF should have conducted themselves in terms of tactics and strategy to meet your approval.

Look in the mirror Muffin. You psychologize that my mix up between Richard Goldstone and Richard Falk is symptomatic of some distorted world view of mine that you claim to be an expert about. What should we psychologize about your mistaken claim that Goldstone sits on the Board of Trustees of the HU? That you have a predetermined slant on everything? That you reject facts that conflict with your world view, even when they stare you in the face? That you are very likely to confuse facts to suit your line?

Additionally Muffin, why don&#039;t you put your money where your mouth is? You ape the position of Rabbis for Human Rights who call for an external investigation of IDF conduct in Gaza. Well you are an Israeli citizen are you not? Assuming you are, you have every right to request the review of the IDF internal investigations from the Attorney General and Ministry of the Attorney General and to launch a suit in the Israeli Supreme Court if you feel the A-G review was in error or evaded facts. Why don&#039;t you do so, instead of complaining on a blog?

Finally Muffin, I will borrow your own language to repeat that you owe me a full retraction for the slanderous bs you accuse me of and if you aren&#039;t enough of an emotionally secure and honest individual to do so, I see no reason in the world to engage with you further, as to do so would be an excercise in frustration and entirely counterproductive. Grow up Muffin and drop your smug and conceited manner, retract your unfounded slander against my character and give your bullshit psychologizing a much deserved rest if you want to be respected. Oh and don&#039;t draw any other commenters into this as you attempted to do with Israeli Nurse and Fabian, it is yet another indication of how desperate you are to grasp at straws in order to rationalize and justify your despicable behaviour towards me on this thread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SO Muffin look in the mirror. You put words in my mouth which have no basis in reality, allege things about me which are all bs, all because apparently you can&#8217;t take any criticism whatsoever. I expect a full retraction from you for all the slander and abuse you heaped upon me. Nothing less and nothing more. </p>
<p>And maybe it&#8217;s about time you check your own image and reputation which you damaged by your despicable performance on this thread and to which sadly you seem to be entirely oblivious. Look in the mirror SO Muffin. Your behaviour on this thread toward me was shameful and entirely baseless. And your efforts at justifying your behaviour, by further attempting to psychologize me and put words in my mouth, only reveals you to be a conceited jerk who is too insecure, thin skinned and emotionally immature to deal with being called out on your own prevarications and poorly argued claims: namely your asserting that mainstream Israeli media shared a consensus that 400 and fewer Hamas combatants were killed during Cast Lead and your indifference to articulating how the IDF should have conducted themselves in terms of tactics and strategy to meet your approval.</p>
<p>Look in the mirror Muffin. You psychologize that my mix up between Richard Goldstone and Richard Falk is symptomatic of some distorted world view of mine that you claim to be an expert about. What should we psychologize about your mistaken claim that Goldstone sits on the Board of Trustees of the HU? That you have a predetermined slant on everything? That you reject facts that conflict with your world view, even when they stare you in the face? That you are very likely to confuse facts to suit your line?</p>
<p>Additionally Muffin, why don&#8217;t you put your money where your mouth is? You ape the position of Rabbis for Human Rights who call for an external investigation of IDF conduct in Gaza. Well you are an Israeli citizen are you not? Assuming you are, you have every right to request the review of the IDF internal investigations from the Attorney General and Ministry of the Attorney General and to launch a suit in the Israeli Supreme Court if you feel the A-G review was in error or evaded facts. Why don&#8217;t you do so, instead of complaining on a blog?</p>
<p>Finally Muffin, I will borrow your own language to repeat that you owe me a full retraction for the slanderous bs you accuse me of and if you aren&#8217;t enough of an emotionally secure and honest individual to do so, I see no reason in the world to engage with you further, as to do so would be an excercise in frustration and entirely counterproductive. Grow up Muffin and drop your smug and conceited manner, retract your unfounded slander against my character and give your bullshit psychologizing a much deserved rest if you want to be respected. Oh and don&#8217;t draw any other commenters into this as you attempted to do with Israeli Nurse and Fabian, it is yet another indication of how desperate you are to grasp at straws in order to rationalize and justify your despicable behaviour towards me on this thread.</p>
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		<title>By: S.O.Muffin</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/17/human-rights-watch-and-the-veteran-extremist/comment-page-5/#comment-379491</link>
		<dc:creator>S.O.Muffin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20560#comment-379491</guid>
		<description>Lbnaz, the only &quot;reputation&quot; that you have to defend is of somebody that always, absolutely always, supports the policies-de-jour of the Israeli government and that always bends facts to suit his-or-her view. The slur upon Richard Goldstone might have been due to confusion, but it is highly symptomatic confusion. (And, you know, it would have been not a bad idea to apologise for it, in particular if this was an innocent confusion.) Once you have a predetermined slant on everything, once you accept uncritically everything that supports your world view and reject facts that conflict with it, even if they stare you in the face, you are highly likely to confuse facts to suit your line.

This is also why it is so frustrating and counterproductive discussing anything with you. Your mind is shuttered and all you can is to mouth platitudes. And this is precisely the difference between you and, say, Fabian or Israelinurse.

I really wish that, for once, you&#039;ll try to read this and take it to heart. If this is not your self-image then just ponder why this image comes across. This might do much more good than shooting back off the hip.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lbnaz, the only &#8220;reputation&#8221; that you have to defend is of somebody that always, absolutely always, supports the policies-de-jour of the Israeli government and that always bends facts to suit his-or-her view. The slur upon Richard Goldstone might have been due to confusion, but it is highly symptomatic confusion. (And, you know, it would have been not a bad idea to apologise for it, in particular if this was an innocent confusion.) Once you have a predetermined slant on everything, once you accept uncritically everything that supports your world view and reject facts that conflict with it, even if they stare you in the face, you are highly likely to confuse facts to suit your line.</p>
<p>This is also why it is so frustrating and counterproductive discussing anything with you. Your mind is shuttered and all you can is to mouth platitudes. And this is precisely the difference between you and, say, Fabian or Israelinurse.</p>
<p>I really wish that, for once, you&#8217;ll try to read this and take it to heart. If this is not your self-image then just ponder why this image comes across. This might do much more good than shooting back off the hip.</p>
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		<title>By: Lbnaz</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/17/human-rights-watch-and-the-veteran-extremist/comment-page-5/#comment-379483</link>
		<dc:creator>Lbnaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20560#comment-379483</guid>
		<description>Yes Anat I called Richard Goldstone a veteran antizionist which he is not because I confused him with Richard Falk who is a veteran antizionist. SO Muffin used this mix up to insist on these threads that I am a liar, a mirror version of the antisemite Hasbara Buster and a shill for the Israeli government who stigmatizes anyone who doesn&#039;t &quot;toe the line&quot; for any Israeli government policy. Richard Goldstone however, is no longer entitled to a reputation of being a &quot;fair man&quot; after agreeing to lead a UNHRC circus investigation that makes a mockery of international law by politicizing the terms for the investigation which predetermined Israel to be guilty of violating international law and proscribed any mention of Palestinian belligerence. And SO Muffin, were he a &quot;fair man&quot;, would be so ashamed by his despicable performance on this thread that he would retract every one of the odious, undeserved and false slurs he made against my character.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Anat I called Richard Goldstone a veteran antizionist which he is not because I confused him with Richard Falk who is a veteran antizionist. SO Muffin used this mix up to insist on these threads that I am a liar, a mirror version of the antisemite Hasbara Buster and a shill for the Israeli government who stigmatizes anyone who doesn&#8217;t &#8220;toe the line&#8221; for any Israeli government policy. Richard Goldstone however, is no longer entitled to a reputation of being a &#8220;fair man&#8221; after agreeing to lead a UNHRC circus investigation that makes a mockery of international law by politicizing the terms for the investigation which predetermined Israel to be guilty of violating international law and proscribed any mention of Palestinian belligerence. And SO Muffin, were he a &#8220;fair man&#8221;, would be so ashamed by his despicable performance on this thread that he would retract every one of the odious, undeserved and false slurs he made against my character.</p>
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		<title>By: Think of England</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/17/human-rights-watch-and-the-veteran-extremist/comment-page-5/#comment-379427</link>
		<dc:creator>Think of England</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 05:23:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20560#comment-379427</guid>
		<description>DocMartyn: Well said! It will probably take that, eventually, like the Sri Lankan government did with the Tamil Tigers; or the US in Japan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DocMartyn: Well said! It will probably take that, eventually, like the Sri Lankan government did with the Tamil Tigers; or the US in Japan.</p>
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		<title>By: Anat</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/17/human-rights-watch-and-the-veteran-extremist/comment-page-5/#comment-379409</link>
		<dc:creator>Anat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:31:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20560#comment-379409</guid>
		<description>Binkstein,

Perhaps you mean well, but most Jews are pretty tired of being told where to live and how to live.  The Israelis want to live in Israel, they don&#039;t want to live in Europe.  Israel runs according to the Jewish year, and Jewish life is not always subject to being fit into other peoples&#039; values.

I am used to being a minority in my own country, but I can see the pleasures of living in a country where one&#039;s expectations are the norm.  It would be wonderful for the High Holidays, for example, to be secular holidays as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Binkstein,</p>
<p>Perhaps you mean well, but most Jews are pretty tired of being told where to live and how to live.  The Israelis want to live in Israel, they don&#8217;t want to live in Europe.  Israel runs according to the Jewish year, and Jewish life is not always subject to being fit into other peoples&#8217; values.</p>
<p>I am used to being a minority in my own country, but I can see the pleasures of living in a country where one&#8217;s expectations are the norm.  It would be wonderful for the High Holidays, for example, to be secular holidays as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Anat</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/17/human-rights-watch-and-the-veteran-extremist/comment-page-5/#comment-379408</link>
		<dc:creator>Anat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:05:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20560#comment-379408</guid>
		<description>I think that there has been a confusion about the two Richards.  I believe that Judge Richard Goldstone is from South Africa, and is considered a fair man.  Richard Falk, the special UN rapporteur is a true anti-Zionist, anti-Israeli, and anti-Semite for all of the fact that he is nominally Jewish himself.  He is the one who has called Israelis Nazis.  The Israelis have refused to talk to him (good thinking, the man is beyond the pale), and do I remember that they wouldn&#039;t allow him to enter Israel?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that there has been a confusion about the two Richards.  I believe that Judge Richard Goldstone is from South Africa, and is considered a fair man.  Richard Falk, the special UN rapporteur is a true anti-Zionist, anti-Israeli, and anti-Semite for all of the fact that he is nominally Jewish himself.  He is the one who has called Israelis Nazis.  The Israelis have refused to talk to him (good thinking, the man is beyond the pale), and do I remember that they wouldn&#8217;t allow him to enter Israel?</p>
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		<title>By: DocMartyn</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/17/human-rights-watch-and-the-veteran-extremist/comment-page-5/#comment-379403</link>
		<dc:creator>DocMartyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20560#comment-379403</guid>
		<description>&quot;In the circumstances of close-quarter urban warfare this often means shooting at anything that moves or anything that can move, with predictable outcome.&quot;

The correct tactics are for fighting close-quarter in a urban setting, with all manner of (illegal) landmines and (illegal) suicide bombers is to...........

what was the correct way for the IDF to act? I would have preferred something along the lines of the Battle of Berlin myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In the circumstances of close-quarter urban warfare this often means shooting at anything that moves or anything that can move, with predictable outcome.&#8221;</p>
<p>The correct tactics are for fighting close-quarter in a urban setting, with all manner of (illegal) landmines and (illegal) suicide bombers is to&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p>what was the correct way for the IDF to act? I would have preferred something along the lines of the Battle of Berlin myself.</p>
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