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	<title>Comments on: Sam Harris, Francis Collins and God, Part 2</title>
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	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/10/sam-harris-francis-collins-and-god-part-2/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: Homercles</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/10/sam-harris-francis-collins-and-god-part-2/comment-page-2/#comment-376586</link>
		<dc:creator>Homercles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20283#comment-376586</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;the fact that Collins thinks that God arranged consciousness that Collins also thinks (or should think) scientists who look for the physical causes of consciousness are wasting their time.&lt;/i&gt;

It shows that Collins doesn&#039;t really believe in evolution. Since consciousness is the software running on the hardware of the evolved brain. It appears that Collins thinks a magic man came along and added a magical ingredient to add consciousness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>the fact that Collins thinks that God arranged consciousness that Collins also thinks (or should think) scientists who look for the physical causes of consciousness are wasting their time.</i></p>
<p>It shows that Collins doesn&#8217;t really believe in evolution. Since consciousness is the software running on the hardware of the evolved brain. It appears that Collins thinks a magic man came along and added a magical ingredient to add consciousness.</p>
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		<title>By: emmanuelgoldstein</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/10/sam-harris-francis-collins-and-god-part-2/comment-page-2/#comment-376431</link>
		<dc:creator>emmanuelgoldstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20283#comment-376431</guid>
		<description>The anti-Collins argument (as channelled by Unity) is unconvincing. It doesn&#039;t follow from the fact that Collins thinks that God arranged consciousness that Collins &lt;i&gt;also&lt;/i&gt; thinks (or should think) scientists who look for the physical causes of consciousness are wasting their time. If he does, that opinion isn&#039;t compelled by his Christianity, so Christianity can&#039;t be the criterion for refusing him employment. After all, lots of Christians believe that God made the world, and still think that geography, archaeology and physics have something to tell us too. Second, there are impeccably &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mysterianism&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;non-theistic folk&lt;/a&gt; who have thought that the problem of connsciousness is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scribd.com/doc/7355244/McGinn-Can-We-Solve-the-Mindbody-Problem&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;unsolvable&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The anti-Collins argument (as channelled by Unity) is unconvincing. It doesn&#8217;t follow from the fact that Collins thinks that God arranged consciousness that Collins <i>also</i> thinks (or should think) scientists who look for the physical causes of consciousness are wasting their time. If he does, that opinion isn&#8217;t compelled by his Christianity, so Christianity can&#8217;t be the criterion for refusing him employment. After all, lots of Christians believe that God made the world, and still think that geography, archaeology and physics have something to tell us too. Second, there are impeccably <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mysterianism" rel="nofollow">non-theistic folk</a> who have thought that the problem of connsciousness is <a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/7355244/McGinn-Can-We-Solve-the-Mindbody-Problem" rel="nofollow">unsolvable</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick (ex South Africa)</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/10/sam-harris-francis-collins-and-god-part-2/comment-page-2/#comment-376412</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick (ex South Africa)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20283#comment-376412</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Just curious, why Buddhism gets a a pass, and Christianity doesn’t in Sam’s world.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Possibly something to do with a significant difference in core tenets. There are no superstitions in accepting the 4 Noble truths and following the 8 fold path. Read the Dhammapada and then the Bible.....chalk and cheese.

Where in Christianity is there anything approaching the Kalama Sutra?

I can assure you that there are plenty of atheists who practice Buddha Dharma. 

For those interested I recommend the short &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.co.uk/Buddha-Past-Masters-Michael-Carrithers/dp/0192875892/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1249941001&amp;sr=1-1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Buddha M Carrithers&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.co.uk/Buddhism-Without-Beliefs-Contemporary-Awakening/dp/0747538433/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1249941165&amp;sr=1-1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Buddhism without Belief&lt;/a&gt; - by ex bhikku (monk) Steven Batchelor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Just curious, why Buddhism gets a a pass, and Christianity doesn’t in Sam’s world.</p></blockquote>
<p>Possibly something to do with a significant difference in core tenets. There are no superstitions in accepting the 4 Noble truths and following the 8 fold path. Read the Dhammapada and then the Bible&#8230;..chalk and cheese.</p>
<p>Where in Christianity is there anything approaching the Kalama Sutra?</p>
<p>I can assure you that there are plenty of atheists who practice Buddha Dharma. </p>
<p>For those interested I recommend the short <a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Buddha-Past-Masters-Michael-Carrithers/dp/0192875892/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1249941001&amp;sr=1-1" rel="nofollow">The Buddha M Carrithers</a> and <a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Buddhism-Without-Beliefs-Contemporary-Awakening/dp/0747538433/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1249941165&amp;sr=1-1" rel="nofollow">Buddhism without Belief</a> &#8211; by ex bhikku (monk) Steven Batchelor.</p>
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		<title>By: vildechaye</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/10/sam-harris-francis-collins-and-god-part-2/comment-page-2/#comment-376327</link>
		<dc:creator>vildechaye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20283#comment-376327</guid>
		<description>According to Ophelia Benson, the entire premise of this and the earlier article is wrong, and Sam Harris&#039; objections to Collins are not simply because he&#039;s religious. Here is her take, and it&#039;s well argued, quoting Harris himself:

&quot;Harris says very clearly what makes him &#039;so uncomfortable about his nomination&#039; and it&#039;s emphatically not just that he believes in God and prays. It&#039;s right there in black and white, words on the page, easy to understand ....

Harris explains his worry very clearly. He quotes Collins on god and morality, then [asks]: 
    Why should Dr. Collins’s beliefs be of concern? There is an epidemic of scientific ignorance in the United States. This isn’t surprising, as very few scientific truths are self-evident, and many are counterintuitive. It is by no means obvious that empty space has structure or that we share a common ancestor with both the housefly and the banana. It can be difficult to think like a scientist. But few things make thinking like a scientist more difficult than religion.

He then expands on why. By no stretch of the imagination does it boil down to &#039;he believes in God; he prays.&#039; 

You can read the entire entry at:
http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/notes.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to Ophelia Benson, the entire premise of this and the earlier article is wrong, and Sam Harris&#8217; objections to Collins are not simply because he&#8217;s religious. Here is her take, and it&#8217;s well argued, quoting Harris himself:</p>
<p>&#8220;Harris says very clearly what makes him &#8217;so uncomfortable about his nomination&#8217; and it&#8217;s emphatically not just that he believes in God and prays. It&#8217;s right there in black and white, words on the page, easy to understand &#8230;.</p>
<p>Harris explains his worry very clearly. He quotes Collins on god and morality, then [asks]:<br />
    Why should Dr. Collins’s beliefs be of concern? There is an epidemic of scientific ignorance in the United States. This isn’t surprising, as very few scientific truths are self-evident, and many are counterintuitive. It is by no means obvious that empty space has structure or that we share a common ancestor with both the housefly and the banana. It can be difficult to think like a scientist. But few things make thinking like a scientist more difficult than religion.</p>
<p>He then expands on why. By no stretch of the imagination does it boil down to &#8216;he believes in God; he prays.&#8217; </p>
<p>You can read the entire entry at:<br />
<a href="http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/notes.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/notes.php</a></p>
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		<title>By: Homercles</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/10/sam-harris-francis-collins-and-god-part-2/comment-page-2/#comment-376305</link>
		<dc:creator>Homercles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:17:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20283#comment-376305</guid>
		<description>Cipriano sees no reason to abandon age-old superstitions just because we can debunk them with facts. What about middle-aged men marrying nine-year-olds, Cipriano? Still fine? Part of humanity&#039;s venerable system of accumulated values?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cipriano sees no reason to abandon age-old superstitions just because we can debunk them with facts. What about middle-aged men marrying nine-year-olds, Cipriano? Still fine? Part of humanity&#8217;s venerable system of accumulated values?</p>
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		<title>By: Homercles</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/10/sam-harris-francis-collins-and-god-part-2/comment-page-2/#comment-376301</link>
		<dc:creator>Homercles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:11:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20283#comment-376301</guid>
		<description>Cipriano: &quot;Atheists are generally just boring and unimaginative.&quot;

You mean... they&#039;re a bit... bovine?

If you say so, Mehdi.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cipriano: &#8220;Atheists are generally just boring and unimaginative.&#8221;</p>
<p>You mean&#8230; they&#8217;re a bit&#8230; bovine?</p>
<p>If you say so, Mehdi.</p>
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		<title>By: Fabian from Israel</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/10/sam-harris-francis-collins-and-god-part-2/comment-page-2/#comment-376275</link>
		<dc:creator>Fabian from Israel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20283#comment-376275</guid>
		<description>&quot;If the law is violated in one place, if order can emerge from chaos in one place in the universe, then there is a problem with the law, no?&quot; (I blame the parents)

The Second Law of the Thermodynamics is not violated anywhere. Leaving aside the fact that this law doesn&#039;t actually deal with &quot;order and disorder&quot;, you can make the analogy that the appearance of life on Earth is like the clumps in your oatmeal. They appear although you sprinkled the oats over the milk carefully to fall randomly.

In any case, if you don&#039;t get the analogy, think that by the way you understand the Second Law of Thermodynamics, the fact that galaxies exist would also be violating the law.

You are talking nonsense. Grow up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If the law is violated in one place, if order can emerge from chaos in one place in the universe, then there is a problem with the law, no?&#8221; (I blame the parents)</p>
<p>The Second Law of the Thermodynamics is not violated anywhere. Leaving aside the fact that this law doesn&#8217;t actually deal with &#8220;order and disorder&#8221;, you can make the analogy that the appearance of life on Earth is like the clumps in your oatmeal. They appear although you sprinkled the oats over the milk carefully to fall randomly.</p>
<p>In any case, if you don&#8217;t get the analogy, think that by the way you understand the Second Law of Thermodynamics, the fact that galaxies exist would also be violating the law.</p>
<p>You are talking nonsense. Grow up.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Murphy</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/10/sam-harris-francis-collins-and-god-part-2/comment-page-2/#comment-376273</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20283#comment-376273</guid>
		<description>Unity,

Your making my point. Christians have tried to reconcile science with their faith, wrong or right but at least there were efforts made by Aquinas, Newton etc- whereas, Eastern mystics that Sam Harris has a soft spot for, have no where near the same tradition.

Help me here. Harris can&#039;t stand Christianity because of its morals and its superstitution, so everything about it is bad BUT......BUT....Buddhism we are supposed to ignore its superstition and bad baggage and focus on its positive aspects.

Just curious, why Buddhism gets a a pass, and Christianity doesn&#039;t in Sam&#039;s world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unity,</p>
<p>Your making my point. Christians have tried to reconcile science with their faith, wrong or right but at least there were efforts made by Aquinas, Newton etc- whereas, Eastern mystics that Sam Harris has a soft spot for, have no where near the same tradition.</p>
<p>Help me here. Harris can&#8217;t stand Christianity because of its morals and its superstitution, so everything about it is bad BUT&#8230;&#8230;BUT&#8230;.Buddhism we are supposed to ignore its superstition and bad baggage and focus on its positive aspects.</p>
<p>Just curious, why Buddhism gets a a pass, and Christianity doesn&#8217;t in Sam&#8217;s world.</p>
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		<title>By: M o r g o t h</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/10/sam-harris-francis-collins-and-god-part-2/comment-page-2/#comment-376264</link>
		<dc:creator>M o r g o t h</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20283#comment-376264</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;What worries me is how angry atheists seem to get these days. &lt;/i&gt;

With good reason. Everywhere, lunatic bronze age supersitition is on the march, and mental retards who hold bronze age supersititions seem to think they&#039;re above criticism.

&lt;i&gt;Care to explain the collapse of the wavefunction to us dumb swills?&lt;/i&gt;

I go with quantum decoherence myself.

P.S. what Unity says, with knobs on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>What worries me is how angry atheists seem to get these days. </i></p>
<p>With good reason. Everywhere, lunatic bronze age supersitition is on the march, and mental retards who hold bronze age supersititions seem to think they&#8217;re above criticism.</p>
<p><i>Care to explain the collapse of the wavefunction to us dumb swills?</i></p>
<p>I go with quantum decoherence myself.</p>
<p>P.S. what Unity says, with knobs on.</p>
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		<title>By: Cipriano</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/08/10/sam-harris-francis-collins-and-god-part-2/comment-page-2/#comment-376224</link>
		<dc:creator>Cipriano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=20283#comment-376224</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t worry - I don&#039;t drink with foam-flecked atheists. They never seem to have anything worthwhile to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t worry &#8211; I don&#8217;t drink with foam-flecked atheists. They never seem to have anything worthwhile to say.</p>
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