Having gralloched enough deer myself in my time, I suspect the estate factors and managers would have had a different attitude if you had brought your five-year old along to the stalk with an assault rifle. And if the kind of weapon involved concerns you, perhaps Hanif could have used one of the Lee Enfield SMLE’s and No.4’s still plentifully available in the border areas of Pakistan. I imagine you’d be slightly less quick to defend him on the grounds of ‘different country and culture’ if the cultural differences involved executing local people for adultery, or for the crime of educating girls. Meanwhile, Hanif was a Scottish politician, and should be judged as as such. I imagine you’d be less keen to defend a Scottish politician being photographed with an AK-47 on holiday in East Belfast or South Armagh, despite the ‘cultural’ differences involved.

Brokering deals with the devil didn’t do nationalist politicians in Weimar Germany any good, so perhaps the SNP should pay more attention to the secular democratic credentials of their allies before they jump into bed with them.

Go and have a “dram” you Rab C Nesbitt Scottish prick. The SNP are nationalists, with a socialist bent so as far as I am concerned you are no different from other nationalist socialists, so go play your bagpipes, eat your haggis and have your wet dreams about william wallace, because without the financial support of England, Scotland would be just a big fucking national park for weekend walkers.

North Sea oil will make you all Saudi Sheiks, yeah right.

That is where we differ. I worry greatly that the Saeeds were able to bring a block Muslim vote to the SNP by a religious edict.

The MAB got a religious leader, Haytham bin Jawwad al-Haddad to write a piece entitled: “Why Vote, and Who To Vote For?” In it he said that the political arena was far too complex for those inexperienced in such issues to make a sensible decision and that Muslims: “.. should entrust this responsibility to the prominent Muslim organisations that have sufficient experience and ability to determine the issue according to the interests of the Muslims.

…I advise my brothers and sisters to forsake their individual opinions in favour of the opinion of the collective

..I have come to the conclusion that the major Muslim organisation concerned about politics in UK so far is the Muslim Association of Britain.”

The MAB in Scotland was run at the time by Saeed, his Dad, his brother and his cousin.

As you said Duncan, “If he brokers a deal with some one and advances the cause of Scottish independence then he gets my vote every time.”

To me a religious leader telling people that politics is too complicated for them and they should vote as told to by an SNP candidate undermines democracy.

But then again, if it advances nationalism, your attitude seems to be the end justifies the means. For me, thousands of people voting on the basis of the instruction of a religious leader is very worrying.

The incident I presume you are alluding to, was when said councillor took his kids to a range to shoot a Kalashnikov, which in the part of the world he comes from is a perfectly normal and socially acceptable way to behave, as Kalashnikovs are as common there as TV sets here.

He is from a different country and a different culture. Can you imagine the howling from the unionist agents if the SNP had sacked him? Racist, racist, you can hear them now.

He broke no law, either in this country or his own. The holiday and the incident took place two years before he became a councillor. If I was a native of that region I would ensure my kids were able to fire a Kalashnikov, as the British have also done for centuries with military cadets, from age 13 and in many private schools, from much earlier. Kids grow up on farms able to shoot as soon as they can hold the gun. A nothing argument.

Your points on Alex Salmond are well made. Which is what makes him the respected statesman he is and the target of the bile and vitriol you can see on this forum. If he brokers a deal with some one and advances the cause of Scottish independence then he gets my vote every time.

Oran’s Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as: “…[a]…citizen’s actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation].” In many nations, it is also often considered treason to attempt or conspire to overthrow the government, even if no foreign country is aided or involved by such an endeavour.

Outside legal spheres, the word “traitor” may also be used to describe a person who betrays (or is accused of betraying) their own political party, nation, family, friends, ethnic group, team, religion, social class, or other group to which they may belong. Often, such accusations are controversial and disputed, as the person may not identify with the group of which they are a member, or may otherwise disagree with the group leaders making the charge. See, for example, race traitor. ”

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When I see a Scottish Labour MP, standing up in the house of commons, (Davidson.) To shout “who cares,” when a question was asked on Scotland.

When I see the disrespectful buffoonery and bawbaggery that Foulkes and his unionist agents practise in Holyrood.

When I hear Murphy gloating and sneering at Ireland, Iceland, Norway and the arc of prosperity, as a means of getting at Scottish independence.

When we hear of labour delegates at conference, “punching the air with delight,” at the news that HBOS was in trouble.

When I watched John Reid at conference stand up and sneer and lie, yes lie about his perception of what independence would bring to Scotland. Passports at Gretna. Families torn apart.

When I hear George Robertson comparing an independent Scotland to Bangladesh.

This fallacious garbage pumped out by unionist Scots who are so corrupt in their behaviour, and lie through their teeth about their native land, I am perfectly comfortable with the above definition of a traitor as applied to them. And I applaud the SNP for telling the truth and putting it on the web site.

What is dangerous and has caused great harm to Scotland throughout the decades of Labour hegemony is the perpetuation of this lie by the media. Which is why a once respected and popular newspaper, like the Scotsman is now in it’s death throws. The campaign on the forum and the articles by Maddox are an affront to a free press.

You want traitors, have you read the works of Grahamski? Since you say you read the forum, you must be familiar with his out pouring of bile and his constant sneering cowardly disgusting reference to the SNP as Nazis. Like the droppings he has just deposited, it was his efforts that was a major contribution to the Heralds decision to close their forum. There is a little nest of his kind who haunts these forums for that very purpose. Destroy and disrupt the debate, because they will never ever win the argument. They fit the traitor mould perfectly.

A very special brand of hatred is reserved for Winnie Ewing as she is regarded as, the one person who did more than anyone to break the hegemony of Labour in Scotland. Her win in Hamilton sticks in their craw. Any thing that can and will be done to smear her will be, as you have just shown. Scottish politics have changed for the better, and forever thanks to her and the SNP, and that is what is driving this mince.