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	<title>Comments on: Meet Lega Nord’s “unofficial chaplain”</title>
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	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/26/meet-lega-nord%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9cunofficial-chaplain%e2%80%9d/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: Felix (Italy)</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/26/meet-lega-nord%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9cunofficial-chaplain%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-371009</link>
		<dc:creator>Felix (Italy)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=19766#comment-371009</guid>
		<description>My dear Comprehensive boy, I was just defending myself as the weaker party with the men on the rooftop. The lesson worked very well as the men then became very friendly and polite. A social barrier had been broken. I have zero sense of superirioty and talk with workers every day in my Trattoria. They are not afaraid of immigrants like me; they are afraid of those with a darker skin. I can understand their fears and we often talk about them. &#039;Third world&#039; immigration has also enriched our lives here. Fortunately there are often positive signs even from people who vote for the Lega. I read in the paper today that an Indian boy is teaching cricket to Italian school children, and more than once a Moroccan has saved an old lady from being robbed by Italians.

I have, on occasion, attacked English and German tourist for being rude to Italians.

There really are thuggish elements in the Lega, thug no.1 being their leader Bossi. The Lega vice mayor of Treviso said he was going to do an ethnic cleansing of Gays in his town and had already sent out police to hunt them down. Just googled. The Gays will take counter measures meeting en masse for collective kissing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My dear Comprehensive boy, I was just defending myself as the weaker party with the men on the rooftop. The lesson worked very well as the men then became very friendly and polite. A social barrier had been broken. I have zero sense of superirioty and talk with workers every day in my Trattoria. They are not afaraid of immigrants like me; they are afraid of those with a darker skin. I can understand their fears and we often talk about them. &#8216;Third world&#8217; immigration has also enriched our lives here. Fortunately there are often positive signs even from people who vote for the Lega. I read in the paper today that an Indian boy is teaching cricket to Italian school children, and more than once a Moroccan has saved an old lady from being robbed by Italians.</p>
<p>I have, on occasion, attacked English and German tourist for being rude to Italians.</p>
<p>There really are thuggish elements in the Lega, thug no.1 being their leader Bossi. The Lega vice mayor of Treviso said he was going to do an ethnic cleansing of Gays in his town and had already sent out police to hunt them down. Just googled. The Gays will take counter measures meeting en masse for collective kissing.</p>
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		<title>By: Comprehensiveboy</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/26/meet-lega-nord%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9cunofficial-chaplain%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-370981</link>
		<dc:creator>Comprehensiveboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:12:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=19766#comment-370981</guid>
		<description>Felix - If I was in a country (not my own) where lots of people looked askance at me and felt strongly about it I&#039;d think - ok shit I&#039;m not liked here, not immediatley put they down as some sort of neanderthals who don&#039;t recognise their good luck of having me grace them with my presence. I wouldn&#039;t look for ways of undermining them, which you have admitted fascinatingly in your mention of  the Frankfurt school of deliberate selective destruction (&#039;bait&#039; taken you see) of  SOME existng realities. (ie would you do it Saudi Arabia?) Have you no sympathy? Ever asked them sincerely why they feel so nervous of immigration?  That&#039;s normal , freindly, non-destructive thinking - research it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Felix &#8211; If I was in a country (not my own) where lots of people looked askance at me and felt strongly about it I&#8217;d think &#8211; ok shit I&#8217;m not liked here, not immediatley put they down as some sort of neanderthals who don&#8217;t recognise their good luck of having me grace them with my presence. I wouldn&#8217;t look for ways of undermining them, which you have admitted fascinatingly in your mention of  the Frankfurt school of deliberate selective destruction (&#8216;bait&#8217; taken you see) of  SOME existng realities. (ie would you do it Saudi Arabia?) Have you no sympathy? Ever asked them sincerely why they feel so nervous of immigration?  That&#8217;s normal , freindly, non-destructive thinking &#8211; research it.</p>
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		<title>By: Oniad</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/26/meet-lega-nord%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9cunofficial-chaplain%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-370903</link>
		<dc:creator>Oniad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 06:49:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=19766#comment-370903</guid>
		<description>Just a minor correction - Williamson is actually a bishop, not merely a priest which is why his odious remarks were considered much more severely than say other priests with similar views.

As to the SSPX&#039;s anti-semitism, just have a look at the &quot;traddie Catholic&quot; websites* back around the time that Williamson got hammered for his comments - their supporters were out in serious numbers spewing hatred in defence of him and the SSPX.

*I&#039;m sure Venichka or John Palubiski can refer you as appropriate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a minor correction &#8211; Williamson is actually a bishop, not merely a priest which is why his odious remarks were considered much more severely than say other priests with similar views.</p>
<p>As to the SSPX&#8217;s anti-semitism, just have a look at the &#8220;traddie Catholic&#8221; websites* back around the time that Williamson got hammered for his comments &#8211; their supporters were out in serious numbers spewing hatred in defence of him and the SSPX.</p>
<p>*I&#8217;m sure Venichka or John Palubiski can refer you as appropriate.</p>
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		<title>By: curdle</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/26/meet-lega-nord%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9cunofficial-chaplain%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-370892</link>
		<dc:creator>curdle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 01:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=19766#comment-370892</guid>
		<description>Burn the bastard as a heretic - that&#039;ll teach him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Burn the bastard as a heretic &#8211; that&#8217;ll teach him.</p>
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		<title>By: Seismic</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/26/meet-lega-nord%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9cunofficial-chaplain%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-370859</link>
		<dc:creator>Seismic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 22:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=19766#comment-370859</guid>
		<description>Mrs Ben - it was SSPX who distanced themselves from Abrahamowicz, not Lega Nord.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mrs Ben &#8211; it was SSPX who distanced themselves from Abrahamowicz, not Lega Nord.</p>
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		<title>By: DSD</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/26/meet-lega-nord%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9cunofficial-chaplain%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-370850</link>
		<dc:creator>DSD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 22:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=19766#comment-370850</guid>
		<description>Something else not mentioned is that one of the main reasons that UKIP felt the need to renew their old affiliation with Lega Nord (ended bizarrely because one their MEPs wore a Mohammed T-Shirt!) is also of course that the EU changed their funding rules to try and wipe out the smaller dissident &#039;Groups&#039; in the Toy Parliament, leaving only the big four to continue marching in glorious lockstep.

&quot;The Ukip want to get out of the EU, for god’s sake that would leave me and thousands Brits like me in the shit in Italy.&quot;

Do you really believe that all Britons on the mainland would be forced onto the next plane home? Cobblers. I&#039;ve heard some weak excuses for EU membership before, but that&#039;s in the Top Ten. And also quite extraordinarily selfish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something else not mentioned is that one of the main reasons that UKIP felt the need to renew their old affiliation with Lega Nord (ended bizarrely because one their MEPs wore a Mohammed T-Shirt!) is also of course that the EU changed their funding rules to try and wipe out the smaller dissident &#8216;Groups&#8217; in the Toy Parliament, leaving only the big four to continue marching in glorious lockstep.</p>
<p>&#8220;The Ukip want to get out of the EU, for god’s sake that would leave me and thousands Brits like me in the shit in Italy.&#8221;</p>
<p>Do you really believe that all Britons on the mainland would be forced onto the next plane home? Cobblers. I&#8217;ve heard some weak excuses for EU membership before, but that&#8217;s in the Top Ten. And also quite extraordinarily selfish.</p>
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		<title>By: DSD</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/26/meet-lega-nord%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9cunofficial-chaplain%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-370844</link>
		<dc:creator>DSD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 22:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=19766#comment-370844</guid>
		<description>&quot;Abrahamowicz celebrated a mass (in Latin, of course) for Lega Nord leader Umberto Bossi in 2007. He didn’t do that just by chance. It shows a clear sympathy between Abrahamowicz and the Lega Nord&quot;

Yikes. By that logic the US Democratic Party is just chock full of raving lunatic racists who think that amongst other things that AIDS was caused by nasty white people. And we&#039;re talking about decades of religious services in the latter case, not a single Mass...

Still, at least you provided some evidence, unlike the rather desperate author.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Abrahamowicz celebrated a mass (in Latin, of course) for Lega Nord leader Umberto Bossi in 2007. He didn’t do that just by chance. It shows a clear sympathy between Abrahamowicz and the Lega Nord&#8221;</p>
<p>Yikes. By that logic the US Democratic Party is just chock full of raving lunatic racists who think that amongst other things that AIDS was caused by nasty white people. And we&#8217;re talking about decades of religious services in the latter case, not a single Mass&#8230;</p>
<p>Still, at least you provided some evidence, unlike the rather desperate author.</p>
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		<title>By: M o r g o t h</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/26/meet-lega-nord%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9cunofficial-chaplain%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-370840</link>
		<dc:creator>M o r g o t h</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 22:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=19766#comment-370840</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Are you a member of the BNP? or the infiltrator of a far right association? &lt;/i&gt;

Oh fuck off.

This is the prime example of why the left is so fucked - as soon as you question their shibboleth of the grand project of importing a different complient client electorate since the first electorate won&#039;t vote for them, then they accuse you of being a fascist.

Which part of &quot;Illegal immigrants are here illegally and do not have any right to be here&quot; don&#039;t you understand?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Are you a member of the BNP? or the infiltrator of a far right association? </i></p>
<p>Oh fuck off.</p>
<p>This is the prime example of why the left is so fucked &#8211; as soon as you question their shibboleth of the grand project of importing a different complient client electorate since the first electorate won&#8217;t vote for them, then they accuse you of being a fascist.</p>
<p>Which part of &#8220;Illegal immigrants are here illegally and do not have any right to be here&#8221; don&#8217;t you understand?</p>
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		<title>By: Venichka</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/26/meet-lega-nord%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9cunofficial-chaplain%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-370823</link>
		<dc:creator>Venichka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 21:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=19766#comment-370823</guid>
		<description>Well, I dispute that UKIP are &quot;lending legitimacy to fascists&quot; (and I think that much-abused and overused latter term is indeed more or less appropriately applied to Lega Nord - who are really odious xenophobes and who very much with a history of supporting or taking part in violent action intended to undermine what passes for democratic politics in Italy);  

Now I DO strongly disapprove of their involvement in the Italian Government, and particularly those who brought them into that, real, substantive, important, as governing a state, alliance: but I suppose too that one, surprisingly positive,  consequence of that (and Berlusconi&#039;s desperate attempts to appear internationally, if not exactly &quot;respectable&quot; as that was clearly a lost hope a long time ago, but at least then not an out-and-out renegade) has been forcing them to distance themselves from the likes of the BNP, Jobbik, Greater Romania Party, Ataka etc, who are (even) harder line than them - which presumably was a major factor in enticing them into the more moderate bloc that UKIP are part of. 


Not least, as I said before, it is the case that UKIP&#039;s involvement in forming a bloc that Lega Nord also form a part of has - far more than anything else, given the election results - PREVENTED the formation of an effectively &quot;fascist&quot; bloc in the European Parliament.

As for the League of Polish Families, I thought that they had more or less collapsed (certainly as a political force at a national level: but also at the European Parliament). I don&#039;t think they have any MEPs at all in the current parliament? The election results shown here http://www.europarl.europa.eu/parliament/archive/elections2009/en/poland_en.html certainly don&#039;t show any (unless they were absorbed into another electoral group for the elections, but I don&#039;t recall that happening)

So, no, in the general scheme of things, were I to be a UKIP supporter, I wouldn&#039;t be terribly happy at several of their current European Parliament bloc affiliates.

But regardless of that, the fact of the matter is that the formation of this bloc has neutered the most hard-line &quot;fascists&quot; or similar in the European Parliament.

And, were pressure to be put upon UKIP to leave this bloc, or kick Lega out (and, I guess,  for the latter to end up in opposition in Italy)...and for it to succeed, maybe we are in a position where there are sufficient numbers for a &quot;fascist&quot; (or at any rate xenophobic nationalist) bloc to be formed. So to my mind, much better to leave things as they are, for now. If UKIP start adopting Lega tactics, sure, then we have a problem that has to be dealt with. But I don&#039;t rate that as being even close to  likely.

This may be the first and last thing to thank Silvio Berlusconi, however indirectly, for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I dispute that UKIP are &#8220;lending legitimacy to fascists&#8221; (and I think that much-abused and overused latter term is indeed more or less appropriately applied to Lega Nord &#8211; who are really odious xenophobes and who very much with a history of supporting or taking part in violent action intended to undermine what passes for democratic politics in Italy);  </p>
<p>Now I DO strongly disapprove of their involvement in the Italian Government, and particularly those who brought them into that, real, substantive, important, as governing a state, alliance: but I suppose too that one, surprisingly positive,  consequence of that (and Berlusconi&#8217;s desperate attempts to appear internationally, if not exactly &#8220;respectable&#8221; as that was clearly a lost hope a long time ago, but at least then not an out-and-out renegade) has been forcing them to distance themselves from the likes of the BNP, Jobbik, Greater Romania Party, Ataka etc, who are (even) harder line than them &#8211; which presumably was a major factor in enticing them into the more moderate bloc that UKIP are part of. </p>
<p>Not least, as I said before, it is the case that UKIP&#8217;s involvement in forming a bloc that Lega Nord also form a part of has &#8211; far more than anything else, given the election results &#8211; PREVENTED the formation of an effectively &#8220;fascist&#8221; bloc in the European Parliament.</p>
<p>As for the League of Polish Families, I thought that they had more or less collapsed (certainly as a political force at a national level: but also at the European Parliament). I don&#8217;t think they have any MEPs at all in the current parliament? The election results shown here <a href="http://www.europarl.europa.eu/parliament/archive/elections2009/en/poland_en.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.europarl.europa.eu/parliament/archive/elections2009/en/poland_en.html</a> certainly don&#8217;t show any (unless they were absorbed into another electoral group for the elections, but I don&#8217;t recall that happening)</p>
<p>So, no, in the general scheme of things, were I to be a UKIP supporter, I wouldn&#8217;t be terribly happy at several of their current European Parliament bloc affiliates.</p>
<p>But regardless of that, the fact of the matter is that the formation of this bloc has neutered the most hard-line &#8220;fascists&#8221; or similar in the European Parliament.</p>
<p>And, were pressure to be put upon UKIP to leave this bloc, or kick Lega out (and, I guess,  for the latter to end up in opposition in Italy)&#8230;and for it to succeed, maybe we are in a position where there are sufficient numbers for a &#8220;fascist&#8221; (or at any rate xenophobic nationalist) bloc to be formed. So to my mind, much better to leave things as they are, for now. If UKIP start adopting Lega tactics, sure, then we have a problem that has to be dealt with. But I don&#8217;t rate that as being even close to  likely.</p>
<p>This may be the first and last thing to thank Silvio Berlusconi, however indirectly, for.</p>
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		<title>By: Seismic</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/26/meet-lega-nord%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9cunofficial-chaplain%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-370817</link>
		<dc:creator>Seismic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 20:38:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=19766#comment-370817</guid>
		<description>Mahmoud, Venichka, Mrs Ben: I don&#039;t think UKIP is a fascist party, but like it or not, they are lending legitimacy to fascists, and this I think is a concern for anti-fascists.

Now UKIP have chosen an alliance with Lega Nord we now have an interest in what Lega Nord says and does, as we do with the League of Polish Families and the Latvia People&#039;s Party, etc, and any other dodgy allies of Labour and the Tories. 

By all means highlight these links too, and we can approach the question of dodgy alliances together. I think part of the responsibility of being a voter in the UK and Europe &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; calling our leaders to account for who they&#039;re lining up with.

Another subject this article was touching on was Abrahamowicz&#039;s claim that his comments were strongly supported by other SSPX priests, and his claim that the SSPX public condemnation of Holocaust denial was largely an exercise in face-saving.

Paul, thanks for encouraging comment, and you too Felix, sorry to hear of your unpleasant experience with Leghistas. As a sidenote I&#039;m taking an interest in my blog in fascist priests across Europe and have recently come across a few in Italy, hence my interest in Abrahamowicz.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mahmoud, Venichka, Mrs Ben: I don&#8217;t think UKIP is a fascist party, but like it or not, they are lending legitimacy to fascists, and this I think is a concern for anti-fascists.</p>
<p>Now UKIP have chosen an alliance with Lega Nord we now have an interest in what Lega Nord says and does, as we do with the League of Polish Families and the Latvia People&#8217;s Party, etc, and any other dodgy allies of Labour and the Tories. </p>
<p>By all means highlight these links too, and we can approach the question of dodgy alliances together. I think part of the responsibility of being a voter in the UK and Europe <em>is</em> calling our leaders to account for who they&#8217;re lining up with.</p>
<p>Another subject this article was touching on was Abrahamowicz&#8217;s claim that his comments were strongly supported by other SSPX priests, and his claim that the SSPX public condemnation of Holocaust denial was largely an exercise in face-saving.</p>
<p>Paul, thanks for encouraging comment, and you too Felix, sorry to hear of your unpleasant experience with Leghistas. As a sidenote I&#8217;m taking an interest in my blog in fascist priests across Europe and have recently come across a few in Italy, hence my interest in Abrahamowicz.</p>
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