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	<title>Comments on: The Stalinoid Left is still stuck in concrete</title>
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	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/10/the-stalinoid-left-is-still-stuck-in-concrete/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: Alec</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/10/the-stalinoid-left-is-still-stuck-in-concrete/comment-page-2/#comment-366149</link>
		<dc:creator>Alec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 12:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=19144#comment-366149</guid>
		<description>Marko, I don&#039;t think Rodent has a real problem with Israel.  He has a Westphalian fetish but, above all, a *real* problem with Harry&#039;s Place.

He&#039;s a complete and utter fucking nutter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marko, I don&#8217;t think Rodent has a real problem with Israel.  He has a Westphalian fetish but, above all, a *real* problem with Harry&#8217;s Place.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s a complete and utter fucking nutter.</p>
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		<title>By: So Much For Subtlety</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/10/the-stalinoid-left-is-still-stuck-in-concrete/comment-page-2/#comment-366106</link>
		<dc:creator>So Much For Subtlety</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 10:38:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=19144#comment-366106</guid>
		<description>MAH&#039;s quote from Trotsky is a nice one, but it is mostly right in a  theoretical sense.  We can and should care less about people far away about whom we know little.  If the French tell us they were hard done by in voting rights in the expanded EU we can judge that because we know more about the situation and the people involved.  If the Pakistanis tell us they are hard done by in the Kashmir dispute, we can judge that less well because most of us do know little - although we know some because of colonialism.  If the people of Kyrghyzystan want us to intervene in a dispute between two clan groups vying for power, few of us are going to be well informed.

The less we know, the more we are likely to judge incorrectly.

As for the Chinese, they reject the idea that linguistic diversity means they are not one people.  In fact many of them get upset at the idea the Cantonese are not Chinese.  Isn&#039;t it a little patronising, or even Imperialist dare I say it?, to insist that our methods of measuring ethnic difference ought to apply to people who use other methods?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MAH&#8217;s quote from Trotsky is a nice one, but it is mostly right in a  theoretical sense.  We can and should care less about people far away about whom we know little.  If the French tell us they were hard done by in voting rights in the expanded EU we can judge that because we know more about the situation and the people involved.  If the Pakistanis tell us they are hard done by in the Kashmir dispute, we can judge that less well because most of us do know little &#8211; although we know some because of colonialism.  If the people of Kyrghyzystan want us to intervene in a dispute between two clan groups vying for power, few of us are going to be well informed.</p>
<p>The less we know, the more we are likely to judge incorrectly.</p>
<p>As for the Chinese, they reject the idea that linguistic diversity means they are not one people.  In fact many of them get upset at the idea the Cantonese are not Chinese.  Isn&#8217;t it a little patronising, or even Imperialist dare I say it?, to insist that our methods of measuring ethnic difference ought to apply to people who use other methods?</p>
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		<title>By: Marko Attila Hoare</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/10/the-stalinoid-left-is-still-stuck-in-concrete/comment-page-2/#comment-366069</link>
		<dc:creator>Marko Attila Hoare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=19144#comment-366069</guid>
		<description>&#039;I also think narky, middle-aged Brits generally know little about the region and less about its politics, and that Xinjiang functions like pretty much any other issue round these parts - i.e. as a stick to beat dissenters.&#039;

Flying Rodent doesn&#039;t have a problem with brutal foreign regimes oppressing their people. He has a problem with Brits who object to this and seek to publicise it, or who speak up for the victims. It&#039;s not the Chinese Communist tyrants who are the bad guys, but their British critics.

He feels the world would be a much better place if people in this country would just keep their mouths shut, and let brutal foreign regimes get on with the business of oppressing their people in peace.

Unless it&#039;s Israel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;I also think narky, middle-aged Brits generally know little about the region and less about its politics, and that Xinjiang functions like pretty much any other issue round these parts &#8211; i.e. as a stick to beat dissenters.&#8217;</p>
<p>Flying Rodent doesn&#8217;t have a problem with brutal foreign regimes oppressing their people. He has a problem with Brits who object to this and seek to publicise it, or who speak up for the victims. It&#8217;s not the Chinese Communist tyrants who are the bad guys, but their British critics.</p>
<p>He feels the world would be a much better place if people in this country would just keep their mouths shut, and let brutal foreign regimes get on with the business of oppressing their people in peace.</p>
<p>Unless it&#8217;s Israel.</p>
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		<title>By: modernity</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/10/the-stalinoid-left-is-still-stuck-in-concrete/comment-page-2/#comment-366042</link>
		<dc:creator>modernity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 01:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=19144#comment-366042</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;What exactly does this mean in the context of China and the Uighurs? Are the Chinese Hitler? What to you think that a modern Churchill should do about the situation?&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

It means that you have a politically parochial view of the world, limited, narrow, also like Chamberlain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;What exactly does this mean in the context of China and the Uighurs? Are the Chinese Hitler? What to you think that a modern Churchill should do about the situation?&#8221;</i></p>
<p>It means that you have a politically parochial view of the world, limited, narrow, also like Chamberlain.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/10/the-stalinoid-left-is-still-stuck-in-concrete/comment-page-2/#comment-365957</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 20:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=19144#comment-365957</guid>
		<description>I was about to pen a comment but was interrupted by watching the BBC 2 programme on Robespierre tonight.  In short, how I&#039;d love to see the deranged radicals on this thread devoured by their own Frankenstein revolutions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was about to pen a comment but was interrupted by watching the BBC 2 programme on Robespierre tonight.  In short, how I&#8217;d love to see the deranged radicals on this thread devoured by their own Frankenstein revolutions.</p>
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		<title>By: Alec</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/10/the-stalinoid-left-is-still-stuck-in-concrete/comment-page-2/#comment-365931</link>
		<dc:creator>Alec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 18:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=19144#comment-365931</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;This kind of stuff is kneejerk wibble with all the intellectual and practical content of a chihuahua barking at the postman.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Hang on, is this the scroat who writes/wrote Dickipedia?

HP is littered with examples of your and Manky Muscular&#039;s &#039;mocking&#039; the site, authors, commenters and anyone who disagrees with Rodent as obsessing about named conflicts (Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel) when there were others elsewhere in the world.  I even recall your constructing an alternative history in which China was deemed the principle threat, and &#039;Decents&#039; swinging in action calling for strikes on Beijing.

Now, opportunity knocks with Diageo and, like only a deranged MA graduate working for Edinburgh City Council can, you become misty-eyed over distillery workers and start shrieking about anyone daring to express on a blog sympathy for foreigners.

Please.  Just.  Fuck.  Off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>This kind of stuff is kneejerk wibble with all the intellectual and practical content of a chihuahua barking at the postman.</p></blockquote>
<p>Hang on, is this the scroat who writes/wrote Dickipedia?</p>
<p>HP is littered with examples of your and Manky Muscular&#8217;s &#8216;mocking&#8217; the site, authors, commenters and anyone who disagrees with Rodent as obsessing about named conflicts (Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel) when there were others elsewhere in the world.  I even recall your constructing an alternative history in which China was deemed the principle threat, and &#8216;Decents&#8217; swinging in action calling for strikes on Beijing.</p>
<p>Now, opportunity knocks with Diageo and, like only a deranged MA graduate working for Edinburgh City Council can, you become misty-eyed over distillery workers and start shrieking about anyone daring to express on a blog sympathy for foreigners.</p>
<p>Please.  Just.  Fuck.  Off.</p>
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		<title>By: Felix (Italy)</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/10/the-stalinoid-left-is-still-stuck-in-concrete/comment-page-2/#comment-365927</link>
		<dc:creator>Felix (Italy)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 18:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=19144#comment-365927</guid>
		<description>The Fascist-Stalinist left are good at doing somersaults - so long as the ideology fits, it doesn&#039;t matter what happens to people. They move from islamophilia to the slaughter of muslims without any trouble.

China is a totalitarian state, a colonizer of Tibet and cannot be justified in any way.

Either Leon Trotsky was completely out of date or more up to date than he realised:

&quot;An individual, a group, a party or a class that is capable of “objectively” picking its nose while it watches men drunk with blood, and incited from above, massacring defenceless people is condemned by history to rot and become worm-eaten while it is still alive.&quot;

This is a perfect description already of the Leninist regime. When, under Lenin&#039;s rule, vandals rampaged through middle class streets pillaging and malteating people, his wife asked him, &quot;Shouldn&#039;t we stop this.&quot; His reply was, &quot;No, let them carry on.&quot; (Lenin by Robert Service, London, MacMillan 2000)

Under Stalin the people who really believed in the communist ideal were sent to Siberia and killed. (Autobiography of Maya Plissetskaya - her father disappeared forever after refusing falsley to incriminate a comrade).

I have been desperately wooed in Verona by a Leninist group. You&#039;d think they&#039;d take one look at me and and decide I was not for them, but no, they even offered to fetch me by car for meetings  - there office is just down the road - so they must have been desperately short of supporters. When I told them what a monster Lenin had been and mentioned R. Luxemburg&#039;s critiques, they became hostile. Luxemburg failed, they told me, because she didn&#039;t obey Lenin&#039;s instructions.

A taste of Trotskyism: I knew friends of friends in London who were Trots and they were due to be put on an internal trial, which would decide whether they were to be thrown out or not. What amazed me is that they went to the trial. If this is the way they behave....well we have had plenty of evidence on HP.

For lack of time I can&#039;t go into the correctness of Marx&#039;s critique of capitalism, and what could be done about it now.

When Marx was at the height of one of his revolutionary fervours in 1848, he, much to the surprise of his followers, disowned his association with the communists, because he thought the middle class revolution had to come first. (See Service&#039;s book above). 

In the 1840&#039;s there was a flourishing middle class culture in music and poetry in Germany and elsewhere.. To have destroyed all that would have been a catastrophe, especially as the artists were instinctively following a self-critical dialectic against their own class, which is still invaluable today.Aristocratic culture was absorbed and gradually transformed by the middle class revolution. The aristocrats themselves adopted middle class style, the replacement of heavy Baroque by Mozartian lightness and grace. The next transition from middle class to popular has, as itwere been sliced off. to Meanwhile communist newspapers support only pop music, which is an entirely commercial capitalist product, spawning millionaires. Marketable exchange value rules over all.

The whole prospect of change for the better has to be radically rethought.

Maybe the Communists and others haven&#039;t woken up to the fact that Marx was perfectly right in his prediction of the inevitability of last revolution, and that we are indeed living under the dictatorship of the proletariat, bedevilled by the invisible monster of capitalism... certainly not as he envisioned it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Fascist-Stalinist left are good at doing somersaults &#8211; so long as the ideology fits, it doesn&#8217;t matter what happens to people. They move from islamophilia to the slaughter of muslims without any trouble.</p>
<p>China is a totalitarian state, a colonizer of Tibet and cannot be justified in any way.</p>
<p>Either Leon Trotsky was completely out of date or more up to date than he realised:</p>
<p>&#8220;An individual, a group, a party or a class that is capable of “objectively” picking its nose while it watches men drunk with blood, and incited from above, massacring defenceless people is condemned by history to rot and become worm-eaten while it is still alive.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is a perfect description already of the Leninist regime. When, under Lenin&#8217;s rule, vandals rampaged through middle class streets pillaging and malteating people, his wife asked him, &#8220;Shouldn&#8217;t we stop this.&#8221; His reply was, &#8220;No, let them carry on.&#8221; (Lenin by Robert Service, London, MacMillan 2000)</p>
<p>Under Stalin the people who really believed in the communist ideal were sent to Siberia and killed. (Autobiography of Maya Plissetskaya &#8211; her father disappeared forever after refusing falsley to incriminate a comrade).</p>
<p>I have been desperately wooed in Verona by a Leninist group. You&#8217;d think they&#8217;d take one look at me and and decide I was not for them, but no, they even offered to fetch me by car for meetings  &#8211; there office is just down the road &#8211; so they must have been desperately short of supporters. When I told them what a monster Lenin had been and mentioned R. Luxemburg&#8217;s critiques, they became hostile. Luxemburg failed, they told me, because she didn&#8217;t obey Lenin&#8217;s instructions.</p>
<p>A taste of Trotskyism: I knew friends of friends in London who were Trots and they were due to be put on an internal trial, which would decide whether they were to be thrown out or not. What amazed me is that they went to the trial. If this is the way they behave&#8230;.well we have had plenty of evidence on HP.</p>
<p>For lack of time I can&#8217;t go into the correctness of Marx&#8217;s critique of capitalism, and what could be done about it now.</p>
<p>When Marx was at the height of one of his revolutionary fervours in 1848, he, much to the surprise of his followers, disowned his association with the communists, because he thought the middle class revolution had to come first. (See Service&#8217;s book above). </p>
<p>In the 1840&#8217;s there was a flourishing middle class culture in music and poetry in Germany and elsewhere.. To have destroyed all that would have been a catastrophe, especially as the artists were instinctively following a self-critical dialectic against their own class, which is still invaluable today.Aristocratic culture was absorbed and gradually transformed by the middle class revolution. The aristocrats themselves adopted middle class style, the replacement of heavy Baroque by Mozartian lightness and grace. The next transition from middle class to popular has, as itwere been sliced off. to Meanwhile communist newspapers support only pop music, which is an entirely commercial capitalist product, spawning millionaires. Marketable exchange value rules over all.</p>
<p>The whole prospect of change for the better has to be radically rethought.</p>
<p>Maybe the Communists and others haven&#8217;t woken up to the fact that Marx was perfectly right in his prediction of the inevitability of last revolution, and that we are indeed living under the dictatorship of the proletariat, bedevilled by the invisible monster of capitalism&#8230; certainly not as he envisioned it.</p>
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		<title>By: Marko Attila Hoare</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/10/the-stalinoid-left-is-still-stuck-in-concrete/comment-page-2/#comment-365870</link>
		<dc:creator>Marko Attila Hoare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 15:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=19144#comment-365870</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Ermintrude</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Ermintrude</p>
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		<title>By: ermintrude</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/10/the-stalinoid-left-is-still-stuck-in-concrete/comment-page-2/#comment-365853</link>
		<dc:creator>ermintrude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 13:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=19144#comment-365853</guid>
		<description>The description of the CPB ML as a Stalinist UKIP is both very funny and accurate. 

The RCPB M-L continue to amaze with their obnoxious support for North Korea and friendship with the doddery gimmers of the NCP, whilst espousing the views of the utterly mad, late Hardial Bains.

Neither should be confused with the family-party of the Great Helmsman of Nowhere, Harpal Brar, the CPGB M-L,. whose &quot;internationalism&quot; is so extensive that it includes support for Mugabe&#039;s rule in Zimbabwe, North Korea and a laughable &quot;Hands off China&quot; campaign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The description of the CPB ML as a Stalinist UKIP is both very funny and accurate. </p>
<p>The RCPB M-L continue to amaze with their obnoxious support for North Korea and friendship with the doddery gimmers of the NCP, whilst espousing the views of the utterly mad, late Hardial Bains.</p>
<p>Neither should be confused with the family-party of the Great Helmsman of Nowhere, Harpal Brar, the CPGB M-L,. whose &#8220;internationalism&#8221; is so extensive that it includes support for Mugabe&#8217;s rule in Zimbabwe, North Korea and a laughable &#8220;Hands off China&#8221; campaign.</p>
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		<title>By: FlyingRodent</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/10/the-stalinoid-left-is-still-stuck-in-concrete/comment-page-1/#comment-365848</link>
		<dc:creator>FlyingRodent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 12:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=19144#comment-365848</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I fear that Flying Rodent’s view of the world is closer to Neville Chamberlain’s than leon Trotsky.&lt;/em&gt;

What exactly does this mean in the context of China and the Uighurs? Are the Chinese Hitler?  What to you think that a modern Churchill should do about the situation?  I mean, is bumping your gums on the internet now an act of Churchillian bravery, or do you actually have to start pushing counters around a map of the world like you were playing Risk? 

I don&#039;t know why I even ask, because the answer&#039;s apparent already.  This kind of stuff is kneejerk wibble with all the intellectual and practical content of a chihuahua barking at the postman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I fear that Flying Rodent’s view of the world is closer to Neville Chamberlain’s than leon Trotsky.</em></p>
<p>What exactly does this mean in the context of China and the Uighurs? Are the Chinese Hitler?  What to you think that a modern Churchill should do about the situation?  I mean, is bumping your gums on the internet now an act of Churchillian bravery, or do you actually have to start pushing counters around a map of the world like you were playing Risk? </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know why I even ask, because the answer&#8217;s apparent already.  This kind of stuff is kneejerk wibble with all the intellectual and practical content of a chihuahua barking at the postman.</p>
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