Re. The Settler movement – read the Sasson Report; can you find any equivalent vis-a-vis Israeli-Arabs?

I’m not sure where you get the idea that I think disaffected youth have no choice but to turn to Islamism. What I am saying is that one of the factors (amongst many, some of which are entirely the fault of the communities themselves), and one that in Israel we’re not doing enough to address.

I’m also well aware that there is much to be proud of vis-a-vis Israel’s minorities. It’s a shame that all your posts are spent either a) bringing up a factor which doesn’t address our responsibility, or b) bringing up something positive to distract from the task at hand. Confident people do not need to do this. When someone criticises me for my behaviour, it is not good if I say, “but look, he is much worse,” or “but I’m really good at sitting still.”

Would your kibbutz accept Arab members?

As for your friends, I am well aware that many Arabs are integrated into Israeli society. But we are not successful enough, as a cursory look at reports produced by experts in the field (Sikkuy, Abraham Fund etc) demonstrate.

I didn’t say that Israel should become a homogenous mass; rather that the progressive values of Israel should percolate around the country.

‘(It’s important to note just how deeply the settler movement is mired in illegality; certainly far more than Israeli-Arab groups)’
This I think you should check out statistically -I’m not convinced it is at all accurate, and even if it is, it’s hardly an answer -two wrongs and all that.
The Islamification of villages in the Galil has little to do with lack of integration or other objective factors in my view -it is part of a global phenomenen which we see happening all over the world. It exists just down the road from me here in Dewsbury and Bradford exactly in the same way as it exists in Um el Fahm. To claim that disaffected youth has ‘no choice’ but to turn to Islamism because of the situation in the ME or perceived injustices in Israel is a classic far-left self delusion. Let’s not forget Alex that Israeli universities are full of Arab students, that there are Arab MKs and high-ranking professionals in all fields, including the diplomatic services. Let’s not forget that Arab women have a vote and are free to dress as they please. Let’s also not forget that the flourishing Jewish communities of the Galil have boosted the properity of the whole region and provided employment and a better way of life for many from the Arab communities there.

My kibbutz does not have any Arab members -we have never had any applications -but we have in the past rented out appartments to Israeli Arabs.

You know Alex, I have friends in Daboriyah and Turan who would be rather insulted by the suggestion that they are not integrated into Israeli society. These are hard-working people with their own businesses, one of whom has sat on the local council. They have made the most of their opportunities and succeeded because they spent their time looking at what they had and building upon it -not mourning what they hadn’t got. I don’t think we need to take any steps vis a vis them. They are doing rather well by themselves.

Yes, I realised some time ago that you like Tel Aviv and that’s great of course; I’m glad you’re happy there, but I personally do not see it as a role model to which the rest of the country should aspire. There is much more to Israel than just Tel Aviv; geographicaly, culturally, spiritually. In my view it would be a tragedy if Israel became one homogenous mass.
Progressive and libertarian are great, but certainly not appropriate for all Israel’s different kinds of citizens. If we are true libertarians we will be able to recognise that fact and be humble enough to realise that we cannot and should not impose our progressive principles upon people who cannot accept them, and not resent them for it.

I’d be interested to know if Alex knows, or cares how frequently cars bearing Israeli plates with drivers and seated passengers including children have been pelted with rocks and molotov cocktails as part of a “citizen protest” and whether this “citizen-led activity” mires Israeli Arabs in illegality far less, or far more than Israeli Jews.

Sorry, is this something you can measure/have measured?

“the state will decide where their municipal boundaries begin and end, not a man with a gun or a firebomb.” Is this referring to a specific case? Have the Arabs of the Galilee successfully taken land with violence? I’d be interested to know how often the Wadi Ari road has been blocked off. Any idea? The most recent case of a citizen-led roadblock I can think of was settlers following the dismantling of an outpost. (It’s important to note just how deeply the settler movement is mired in illegality; certainly far more than Israeli-Arab groups)

I don’t know where you get the idea that I think we should ignore the problem of Islamic radicalisation. The best way to combat this, and the best way to ensure a successful future for the Galilee, is to promote its development in such a way that all its inhabitants will benefit. This is part of the process of normalisation. Israel needs to move forward as a strong, confident, modern democracy. You are right that there were important security benefits for settling the Galilee in the past. Today, when it comes to our fellow Israeli citizens at least, we have to try a new approach, one that ensures that Israeli-Arabs will be fully integrated into the state.

I am proud to live in Tel Aviv, btw. Despite all the jibes, and despite many problems, it remains the most progressive and libertarian part of the country, and is in many ways a model for the future development of Israel.

PS The sectarian violence you refer to is awful and should be opposed. Above and beyond that I’m not sure exactly what relevance it has to the issue at hand.

But your whole point was reductionist: the Arabs lack land, give them land!