Comments on: Your Arsenal

By: Dan

Dan — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 10:50:52 +0000

“societies are collective entities, there has to be shared space and vaslues.”

A society is not a collective. There may be shared space, but no shared values – the shared space is where values should be contested, not imposed.

By: SueR

SueR — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 09:20:10 +0000

@More real and authentic’? The Queen doesn’t live as a worker, does that make her less authentically English/British? Anyway, societies are collective entities, there has to be shared space and vaslues. How does that work with your ‘you are what you are’ philosophy?

By: Dan

Dan — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:05:34 +0000

“I drag class into it Dan, because I am a socialist”

It still doesn’t answer my question. Do you think “working-class culture” is somehow more real and authentic?

“why are you so touchy about other people being ‘proud’ of being English?”

I’m not. I said that I was happy for you to be if that’s what you want to be, just don’t expect everyone else to feel the way you do.

By: SueR

SueR — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:00:05 +0000

I drag class into it Dan, because I am a socialist, I don’t expect you to be though. Also, why are you so touchy about other people being ‘proud’ of being English? To be honest, Englishness has never been an issue for the English for most of my life (I am 51 now), it is only in recent years that the subject has even come up. I wonder whose interests are being served by dividing the working class like this?

By: Dan

Dan — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 21:50:29 +0000

“Dan seems to want to extrapolate ideas of ethcity from the Indian sub-continent to the British Isles, when we have a totally different history and social structure.”

Did I? I was explaining to you that a vernacular language is an important element in attempts to create national identity in many cases. I picked the example of Bangladesh, but I could also have illustrated the fact with the Welsh. The fact remains that the English language is not unique to England and beyond saying that everyone in the country should learn English in order to participate fully in society, English nationalism is not driven by a linguistic movement as Welsh or Basque nationalism are.

“Then, it devolves into ‘I am what I feel I am’.”

Why does that bother you? I want to state my identity in the way I choose, not have people thrust it on me. Likewise with anyone else. You can be proud of your Englishness if you want, just don’t expect me to join you.

“There is a class dimension to all this of course, in terms of national interest.”

Why drag class into this?

By: Shome Mishtake

Shome Mishtake — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:56:15 +0000

What is often demanded of Asian Muslims in particular is that they are expected to do more than others to prove themselves to be loyal, integrated and productive members of society.

Many could start by allowing native Brits. to court their daughters/sisters/female relatives…that would be a start…

By: SueR

SueR — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:34:57 +0000

Dan seems to want to extrapolate ideas of ethcity from the Indian sub-continent to the British Isles, when we have a totally different history and social structure. Then, it devolves into ‘I am what I feel I am’. Very Cartesian. There is a class dimension to all this of course, in terms of national interest. In that sense it is impossible to say there is a single ‘Englishness’, I call my midday meal ‘dinner’, Dan probably calls it ‘lunche’ or even ‘luncheon’.

By: Hugh

Hugh — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:15:16 +0000

Re the chants of the guys who don’t seem to pay on the Tube.
“Love it or leave it” – less fascist more like hippie. As for “Terrorists Out” who has a problem with that? Film demonstrates what a great and special place to live is London.

By: Dan

Dan — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:57:26 +0000

“arguing it doesn’t exist merely because it can’t characterised by language is silly.”

I didn’t say it didn’t exist, just that national identity is subjective and personal and as such no-one should be expected to prove their identity in public in order to be a member of society. What is often demanded of Asian Muslims in particular is that they are expected to do more than others to prove themselves to be loyal, integrated and productive members of society. But given that everyone has different expectations and ideas, it is an impossible goal for them to meet. Speaking English, for instance, is not enough for many people – certainly not for the handful of yobs in this video.

By: Ignorant Lefty Twats

Ignorant Lefty Twats — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:49:09 +0000

Gene, are you a cultural bigot in real life or do you just enjoy pretending to be one on the Internet? They also called Elvis a white negro, if you need material for your next post.