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	<title>Comments on: Seeing Iran through filters</title>
	<atom:link href="http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/17/seeing-iran-through-filters/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/17/seeing-iran-through-filters/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: Hector</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/17/seeing-iran-through-filters/comment-page-1/#comment-355853</link>
		<dc:creator>Hector</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=18135#comment-355853</guid>
		<description>Alcuin: LOL&#039;d at that link. Sorry, I thought you were being serious. Should have known better than to take any comment on Harry&#039;s Place as non-satirical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alcuin: LOL&#8217;d at that link. Sorry, I thought you were being serious. Should have known better than to take any comment on Harry&#8217;s Place as non-satirical.</p>
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		<title>By: Me</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/17/seeing-iran-through-filters/comment-page-1/#comment-355774</link>
		<dc:creator>Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=18135#comment-355774</guid>
		<description>Stopped reading after this:

&lt;i&gt;demonstrating that neoconservatism is an offshoot of Leninism&lt;/i&gt;

He is writing from a position that the only important thing is to show how much he hates the evil neocons. All the rest is of secondary importance at best. This is not analysis, it&#039;s fourth form posturing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stopped reading after this:</p>
<p><i>demonstrating that neoconservatism is an offshoot of Leninism</i></p>
<p>He is writing from a position that the only important thing is to show how much he hates the evil neocons. All the rest is of secondary importance at best. This is not analysis, it&#8217;s fourth form posturing.</p>
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		<title>By: Short order cook</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/17/seeing-iran-through-filters/comment-page-1/#comment-355750</link>
		<dc:creator>Short order cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=18135#comment-355750</guid>
		<description>Hector, you appear to have missed the key fact that Carter was a democrat. Here&#039;s a handy guide to recent US presidents&#039; most notable acheivements:
Kennedy - Got America bogged down in Vietnam
LBJ - Wouldn&#039;t let army fight with gloves off in Vietnam
Nixon - Ended Vietnam
Ford - Prepared ground for Reagan boom years
Carter - Islamic revolution in Iran, recession
Reagan - Fall of the USSR
Bush I - Victory over Iraq to end the spectre of Vietnam
Clinton - Dot com bubble, credit crunch
Bush II - Victory over Iraq (again) and Al Qaeda
Obama - Turned US into socialist state

Please refer to this handy guide to work out who is to blame for any particular world event.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hector, you appear to have missed the key fact that Carter was a democrat. Here&#8217;s a handy guide to recent US presidents&#8217; most notable acheivements:<br />
Kennedy &#8211; Got America bogged down in Vietnam<br />
LBJ &#8211; Wouldn&#8217;t let army fight with gloves off in Vietnam<br />
Nixon &#8211; Ended Vietnam<br />
Ford &#8211; Prepared ground for Reagan boom years<br />
Carter &#8211; Islamic revolution in Iran, recession<br />
Reagan &#8211; Fall of the USSR<br />
Bush I &#8211; Victory over Iraq to end the spectre of Vietnam<br />
Clinton &#8211; Dot com bubble, credit crunch<br />
Bush II &#8211; Victory over Iraq (again) and Al Qaeda<br />
Obama &#8211; Turned US into socialist state</p>
<p>Please refer to this handy guide to work out who is to blame for any particular world event.</p>
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		<title>By: Alcuin</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/17/seeing-iran-through-filters/comment-page-1/#comment-355674</link>
		<dc:creator>Alcuin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=18135#comment-355674</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;You think Carter chose Khomeni?&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZfkG78k3rA&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Absolutely.&lt;/a&gt;. It was Carter who was mad, and Obama is following in his footsteps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>You think Carter chose Khomeni?</i></p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZfkG78k3rA" rel="nofollow">Absolutely.</a>. It was Carter who was mad, and Obama is following in his footsteps.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Camel</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/17/seeing-iran-through-filters/comment-page-1/#comment-355665</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Camel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=18135#comment-355665</guid>
		<description>There are a number of different questions that can legitimately be asked about what has been going on in Iran since last week&#039;s elections. Here is a small sample:

1. Was it rigged or wasn&#039;t it?

2. Even if it was, wouldn&#039;t little Mahmoud still have come first anyway?

3. To what extent, if at all, do the other three candidates for president share western values such as the legitimacy of the democratic process?

4. To what extent, if at all, do the protestors in the silent marches share western values such as the legitimacy of the democratic process?

5. Depending on your answers to questions 1 to 4 above, what is the most suitable response that we should be looking for from our own government (Obama, Brown, Sarkozy, Merkel, Netanyahu, . . . fill in the blank)?

From this snippet, Packer seems to be addressing question 5 exclusively. But we ought to be clear in our own minds what it is we object to. Is it (a) that he is giving the wrong answer to question 5, or (b) that he shouldn&#039;t even be attempting to answer question 5 until he has found the answers to questions 1 through 4? 

If it&#039;s (a), then I&#039;d say there isn&#039;t yet a single right answer. The best we can do is look at the alternatives.

If it&#039;s (b), then the objection is valid only up to a point. If we wait until every last detail is filled in about the facts on the ground in Iran, we&#039;ll run the risk of postponing any action until it&#039;s too late.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a number of different questions that can legitimately be asked about what has been going on in Iran since last week&#8217;s elections. Here is a small sample:</p>
<p>1. Was it rigged or wasn&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>2. Even if it was, wouldn&#8217;t little Mahmoud still have come first anyway?</p>
<p>3. To what extent, if at all, do the other three candidates for president share western values such as the legitimacy of the democratic process?</p>
<p>4. To what extent, if at all, do the protestors in the silent marches share western values such as the legitimacy of the democratic process?</p>
<p>5. Depending on your answers to questions 1 to 4 above, what is the most suitable response that we should be looking for from our own government (Obama, Brown, Sarkozy, Merkel, Netanyahu, . . . fill in the blank)?</p>
<p>From this snippet, Packer seems to be addressing question 5 exclusively. But we ought to be clear in our own minds what it is we object to. Is it (a) that he is giving the wrong answer to question 5, or (b) that he shouldn&#8217;t even be attempting to answer question 5 until he has found the answers to questions 1 through 4? </p>
<p>If it&#8217;s (a), then I&#8217;d say there isn&#8217;t yet a single right answer. The best we can do is look at the alternatives.</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s (b), then the objection is valid only up to a point. If we wait until every last detail is filled in about the facts on the ground in Iran, we&#8217;ll run the risk of postponing any action until it&#8217;s too late.</p>
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		<title>By: Hector</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/17/seeing-iran-through-filters/comment-page-1/#comment-355658</link>
		<dc:creator>Hector</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=18135#comment-355658</guid>
		<description>Alcuin, are you nuts? You think Carter chose Khomeni? The tragedy of Iran was not Carter&#039;s fault, it was Eisenhower&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alcuin, are you nuts? You think Carter chose Khomeni? The tragedy of Iran was not Carter&#8217;s fault, it was Eisenhower&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: DocMartyn</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/17/seeing-iran-through-filters/comment-page-1/#comment-355611</link>
		<dc:creator>DocMartyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=18135#comment-355611</guid>
		<description>Whose side are you on boy?

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1769/slide_1769_23983_large.jpg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whose side are you on boy?</p>
<p><a href="http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1769/slide_1769_23983_large.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1769/slide_1769_23983_large.jpg</a></p>
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		<title>By: Alcuin</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/17/seeing-iran-through-filters/comment-page-1/#comment-355576</link>
		<dc:creator>Alcuin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=18135#comment-355576</guid>
		<description>Take Islam out of Iran, and it could become an economic tiger. It has the brains, the education, the resources and a long proud &lt;a href=&quot;http://zoroastrians.net/2009/03/28/2500-years-of-iranian-monarchy-celebrations-in-persepolis-1971/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;history and culture&lt;/a&gt;. Before the catastrophe of Khomeini, Iran was being touted as the new Japan.

But Jimmy Carter could only see the Shah&#039;s authoritarian rule with human rights abuses that were not as bad as many, and thought it needed a new shining dawn, a Ghandi to make it a beacon of enlightenment to south west Asia. But his chosen Ghandi turned out to be more like Ghengis Khan, and Iran has declined for 30 years. Even if the current regime is overthrown, its militaristic culture and dodgy neighbours will constrain any Renaissance. I wish it well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Take Islam out of Iran, and it could become an economic tiger. It has the brains, the education, the resources and a long proud <a href="http://zoroastrians.net/2009/03/28/2500-years-of-iranian-monarchy-celebrations-in-persepolis-1971/" rel="nofollow">history and culture</a>. Before the catastrophe of Khomeini, Iran was being touted as the new Japan.</p>
<p>But Jimmy Carter could only see the Shah&#8217;s authoritarian rule with human rights abuses that were not as bad as many, and thought it needed a new shining dawn, a Ghandi to make it a beacon of enlightenment to south west Asia. But his chosen Ghandi turned out to be more like Ghengis Khan, and Iran has declined for 30 years. Even if the current regime is overthrown, its militaristic culture and dodgy neighbours will constrain any Renaissance. I wish it well.</p>
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		<title>By: thomas k</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/17/seeing-iran-through-filters/comment-page-1/#comment-355568</link>
		<dc:creator>thomas k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=18135#comment-355568</guid>
		<description>http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/michaeltomasky/2009/jun/16/iran-election-khamenei

Mike Tomasky in the Guardian: Is Rafsanjani plotting against the 
Supreme leader Ali Khamenei?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/michaeltomasky/2009/jun/16/iran-election-khamenei" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/michaeltomasky/2009/jun/16/iran-election-khamenei</a></p>
<p>Mike Tomasky in the Guardian: Is Rafsanjani plotting against the<br />
Supreme leader Ali Khamenei?</p>
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		<title>By: Short order cook</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/17/seeing-iran-through-filters/comment-page-1/#comment-355562</link>
		<dc:creator>Short order cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:50:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=18135#comment-355562</guid>
		<description>I agree with Packer. All too often in newspaper opinion pieces and on blogs people are struggling to fit the events round their ideological viewpoint. The far left has often been accused of this, mainly because they are blatant about it, but the right are also guilty, and have become more transparent since the recent American election campaign, and the victory of Obama.

I don’t see how it is particularly any worse than normal in the writings about the situation in Iran, except that the unworkable amount of incoherent information lends itself well to cherry picking. I don’t see how it’s unacceptable to comment on it now, there are many other threads on this blog and places in the online and offline world where you can find out about the situation in Iran and express sympathy for the people caught up in it if you want. In fact by commenting on this thread you’re wasting valuable time that could be spent reading Twitter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Packer. All too often in newspaper opinion pieces and on blogs people are struggling to fit the events round their ideological viewpoint. The far left has often been accused of this, mainly because they are blatant about it, but the right are also guilty, and have become more transparent since the recent American election campaign, and the victory of Obama.</p>
<p>I don’t see how it is particularly any worse than normal in the writings about the situation in Iran, except that the unworkable amount of incoherent information lends itself well to cherry picking. I don’t see how it’s unacceptable to comment on it now, there are many other threads on this blog and places in the online and offline world where you can find out about the situation in Iran and express sympathy for the people caught up in it if you want. In fact by commenting on this thread you’re wasting valuable time that could be spent reading Twitter.</p>
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