Try sticking your head in an electric blender first.

He even does it when talking about non-political things that Muslims do

This point is that Obama didn’t have to be influenced by Wright but he could at least have objected to the antisemitic tones he must have used.

This point is that Obama didn’t have to be influenced by Wright but he could at least have objected to the antisemitic tones he must have used.

Assumes facts not in evidence, thanks – the giveaway is the must have used formulation. There’s no direct evidence either way just what he did say during Obama’s time as a congregant – what little evidence there is, Obama’s, tells against the claim that he said anti-Semitic stuff – and even less of Obama’s interactions with him.

All you’ve got is (i) Obama’s attendance and (ii) Wright saying crazy stuff in the past, and, more recently, stupid anti-Semitic stuff. So let’s see how the smear of Obama works.

Further, over 20 years you may not adopt the same level of beliefs of those you regard as your pastor but its surely not credible that none of it stayed with Obama and created doubts in his mind. You don’t stay in a church unless what your pastor preaches has some resonance with your beliefs. He only left the church when the press outed Rev Wright.

Take contraception, torture, or the voting guides that the various Christian denominations issue every year. Church teaching and contraception isn’t unclear, and nor are the statistics: famously, Catholics contracept at about the same rate as non-Catholics. The teaching of the Church is that torture is never justified; here’s a poll in which 78% of white American Catholics think that torture is, at least sometimes, justified. (Non-religious people are actually slightly likelier to affirm the Catholic position on torture.)

A glance at the voting guidelines issued by mainstream Christian denominations in the UK and the USA over the last twenty years shows that what you might call the official Christian position is considerably to the left of either of the parties with a chance of winning (just look at what those guides have to say about immigration or economics). Nonetheless, most voters who take their religion seriously vote for parties considerably to the right of the positions developed in the voting guides.

(And the fact that there are Muslim clerics tirelessly preaching peace is never allowed, on these pages, to interrupt the anti-Muslim hatefest.)

Irish Catholics. Many of their pastors were child abusers; the abuse persisted for decades, sometimes with state support or connivance. Why aren’t you accusing Irish Catholics of being child-abusers themselves? Presumably because even you can see that it’s entirely possible for believers to have clergy with thoroughly unsavoury beliefs over a very long time without the believers either accepting or acting on those beliefs; particularly so when those beliefs aren’t doctrinal. Simply being in the same room or in close and persistent contact with someone of unsavoury beliefs is insufficient to transmit the belief; your model of belief by infection is a crock.

Why you’re unable or unwilling to see the analogous point in the Obama case is a matter for speculation, but I think it’s safe to say you’re either malicious or dumb — and the ‘or’ isn’t exclusive.

You rather stupidly miss this point

That Obama managed to stay his tongue and not rebuke Wright over those 20 years is a testimony to Obama’s greatness.

This point is that Obama didn’t have to be influenced by Wright but he could at least have objected to the antisemitic tones he must have used.

Further, over 20 years you may not adopt the same level of beliefs of those you regard as your pastor but its surely not credible that none of it stayed with Obama and created doubts in his mind. You don’t stay in a church unless what your pastor preaches has some resonance with your beliefs. He only left the church when the press outed Rev Wright.

What we can say is that we might watch Obama closely to see if his attitudes to Israel are tainted with the idea that they are indulging in Genocide against Palestinians.

What is it about Obama running for president that suddenly made Wright a Class 1 antisemite? Obviously, for 20 years in his sermons and private thoughts shared with Obama this never managed to surface.

Its wonderful that Wright, as close as a mother (or was it grandmother) to Obama, never influenced Obama to feel the slightest twing of antisemitism and his rants against Israel for a genocide against the Palestinians were water off a duck’s back. That Obama managed to stay his tongue and not rebuke Wright over those 20 years is a testimony to Obama’s greatness.

With respect, you’re an idiot.

It’s safe to say that you don’t think Irish Catholic men are kiddie-fiddlers, despite decisive evidence of persistent misbehaviour — decades of it! — in that regard by central bits of the Church in Ireland. (I’m Catholic too, and while these scandals are a moral disaster, they’ve never so much as inclined me to leave the Church, not a little bit.)

Religious folk aren’t mindless zombies, following their preachers’ orders; and, in general, nor do they worship their clergy — they can and do distinguish religious observance from agreeing with clerical obiter dicta.

Its wonderful that Wright, as close as a mother (or was it grandmother) to Obama, never influenced Obama to feel the slightest twing of antisemitism and his rants against Israel for a genocide against the Palestinians were water off a duck’s back. That Obama managed to stay his tongue and not rebuke Wright over those 20 years is a testimony to Obama’s greatness.

His recent attitudes and understanding shown to Israel over the peace process and Iran demonstrate absolutely no Wright influence whatsoever……

(I can’t write any more of this pap)

You should know, Emmanuel/Joe…it’s all in the italics…

There seems to be a massive problem among Harry’s Place commenters (and posters, too, come to think of it) with Contamination Panic: the idea that people must absorb bad ideology from being in the same room, church or even country as those who profess that ideology….