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	<title>Comments on: The &#8220;Nakba Narrative&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/02/the-nakba-narrative/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/02/the-nakba-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-350003</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=17411#comment-350003</guid>
		<description>Too true, Greg, too true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too true, Greg, too true.</p>
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		<title>By: Cabalamat</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/02/the-nakba-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-349966</link>
		<dc:creator>Cabalamat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 18:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=17411#comment-349966</guid>
		<description>George,

thank you for your lucid expanation.

I suspect the original lost quite a bit in translation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George,</p>
<p>thank you for your lucid expanation.</p>
<p>I suspect the original lost quite a bit in translation.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/02/the-nakba-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-349874</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=17411#comment-349874</guid>
		<description>If they wanted to, the Arab states could end the conflict in a heart-beat by a variety of means, from signing peace agreements with Israel to bribing Israelis - all of them - with much $$$ - to emigrate.

However they haven&#039;t and they won&#039;t for the simple reason it&#039;s in Arab and Muslim states&#039; interests to perpetuate the conflict whilst looking &#039;helpful&#039; trying to solve it.  As long as there&#039;s a major foreign enemy, internal reform can be put off indefinitely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they wanted to, the Arab states could end the conflict in a heart-beat by a variety of means, from signing peace agreements with Israel to bribing Israelis &#8211; all of them &#8211; with much $$$ &#8211; to emigrate.</p>
<p>However they haven&#8217;t and they won&#8217;t for the simple reason it&#8217;s in Arab and Muslim states&#8217; interests to perpetuate the conflict whilst looking &#8216;helpful&#8217; trying to solve it.  As long as there&#8217;s a major foreign enemy, internal reform can be put off indefinitely.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark2</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/02/the-nakba-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-349773</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:20:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=17411#comment-349773</guid>
		<description>Cablamat 

I think its an academic&#039;s way of saying &quot;spin&quot;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cablamat </p>
<p>I think its an academic&#8217;s way of saying &#8220;spin&#8221;!</p>
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		<title>By: Ohad</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/02/the-nakba-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-349765</link>
		<dc:creator>Ohad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=17411#comment-349765</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;those anti-Zionists who jump up and down with glee whenever an Israeli academic questions, say, the justice of the 1948 War of Independence&lt;/i&gt;

What do those gleeful anti-Zionists think that the Levantine Jews should have done instead of what they did do?

Fine to say &quot;not Deir Yassin&quot;,  but Deir Yassin is a minor incident in the context of ethnic strife around the world.  Who should have been their &quot;role models&quot; for the way they fought for their individual and national survival?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>those anti-Zionists who jump up and down with glee whenever an Israeli academic questions, say, the justice of the 1948 War of Independence</i></p>
<p>What do those gleeful anti-Zionists think that the Levantine Jews should have done instead of what they did do?</p>
<p>Fine to say &#8220;not Deir Yassin&#8221;,  but Deir Yassin is a minor incident in the context of ethnic strife around the world.  Who should have been their &#8220;role models&#8221; for the way they fought for their individual and national survival?</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/02/the-nakba-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-349693</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 08:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=17411#comment-349693</guid>
		<description>Hit &#039;submit&#039; a bit too soon there.

But while it is important to allow people to save face, it is perhaps even more important to ensure that the face-saving is implicitly understood by all concerned to be just that. In other words, if the reassertion of the traditional narrative is taken too seriously, then we really are back to square one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hit &#8217;submit&#8217; a bit too soon there.</p>
<p>But while it is important to allow people to save face, it is perhaps even more important to ensure that the face-saving is implicitly understood by all concerned to be just that. In other words, if the reassertion of the traditional narrative is taken too seriously, then we really are back to square one.</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/02/the-nakba-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-349691</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 08:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=17411#comment-349691</guid>
		<description>To those who ask &quot;Does that sentence actually mean anything?&quot;, it may be a bit heavy (and don&#039;t forget that it is a translation) but the meaning seems clear enough to me. As the Palestinian leadership (or elements of it anyway) moves towards compromise with Israel (&quot;secretly deviating from the narrative&quot;), it has to ratchet up the rhetoric so as to appear not to be denying the narrative. In much the same way, Sinn Féin, having deviated from Irish nationalism&#039;s traditional narrative by buying into the historic compromise of the Belfast Agreement, still felt that it had to present this compromise to its base as a step on the road to Irish unity. It&#039;s called saving face and it is vital that people be allowed to save face if progress is to be made in seemingly intractable situations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To those who ask &#8220;Does that sentence actually mean anything?&#8221;, it may be a bit heavy (and don&#8217;t forget that it is a translation) but the meaning seems clear enough to me. As the Palestinian leadership (or elements of it anyway) moves towards compromise with Israel (&#8220;secretly deviating from the narrative&#8221;), it has to ratchet up the rhetoric so as to appear not to be denying the narrative. In much the same way, Sinn Féin, having deviated from Irish nationalism&#8217;s traditional narrative by buying into the historic compromise of the Belfast Agreement, still felt that it had to present this compromise to its base as a step on the road to Irish unity. It&#8217;s called saving face and it is vital that people be allowed to save face if progress is to be made in seemingly intractable situations.</p>
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		<title>By: Cabalamat</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/02/the-nakba-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-349669</link>
		<dc:creator>Cabalamat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 07:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=17411#comment-349669</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;There is a unique set of dynamics to this ring of contradiction, most which involve attempts to compensate for secretly deviating from the Narrative by engaging in more eloquent rhetoric that invokes the themes of the constants, the conjuring of memory and the supposed optimism of the will.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Does that sentence actually mean anything?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;There is a unique set of dynamics to this ring of contradiction, most which involve attempts to compensate for secretly deviating from the Narrative by engaging in more eloquent rhetoric that invokes the themes of the constants, the conjuring of memory and the supposed optimism of the will.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Does that sentence actually mean anything?</p>
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		<title>By: grand ma</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/02/the-nakba-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-349659</link>
		<dc:creator>grand ma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 06:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=17411#comment-349659</guid>
		<description>I feel we are all in a trance over &quot;the rights of the Palestinian People&quot; and &quot;Peace&quot;.

Can anyone tell me what benefit Israel gets from a peace deal with the Palestinians?

Can anyone tell me what the unified offer from Fatah/Gaza is?

While we can whine on about the &quot;Nakba&quot; do we ever discuss the self-infliction bt the Palestinians by not ever making peace?

Don&#039;t get me wrong, Israel has been brutal at times but so have Palestinians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel we are all in a trance over &#8220;the rights of the Palestinian People&#8221; and &#8220;Peace&#8221;.</p>
<p>Can anyone tell me what benefit Israel gets from a peace deal with the Palestinians?</p>
<p>Can anyone tell me what the unified offer from Fatah/Gaza is?</p>
<p>While we can whine on about the &#8220;Nakba&#8221; do we ever discuss the self-infliction bt the Palestinians by not ever making peace?</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, Israel has been brutal at times but so have Palestinians.</p>
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		<title>By: socialrepublican</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/06/02/the-nakba-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-349640</link>
		<dc:creator>socialrepublican</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 02:11:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=17411#comment-349640</guid>
		<description>Shmuel. It is a bit, isn&#039;t it

There&#039;s a phase i found in Paul Blokker&#039;s work on Eastern Europe, &#039;Crisis Narrative&#039;.  Ideological movements need some kind of historical motivation for acting and for acting &#039;ideologically&#039;.  It helps sustain social scision and conflict long after the material promises evaporate.  By depicting a catastrosphic &#039;descent&#039; and holding out the promises of fiery return, the ideologue can both legitimise any act and condone inaction as part of a grand historical mechanism.  Conjoining Volenteerism and Fatalism, that is the key, the will for power to the chosen elite, part inertia, part choreographed movement for the masses.

The Nakba was a tragedy, but not like the easy moral tale of the Nationalists, Pan-Arabists and Islamists.  The tragedy is that hundreds of thousands left, some pushed by low level Israeli violence, most by the promises of the Arab leaders to &#039;return&#039; them.  Then for sixty years, they have been parked like refuse around the Arab world, used as symbols of various craptrap ideologies whilst being distained and discriminated against.  When Israel has treated its refugees from the progoms and expulsions of the Middle east with a modicum of aid and compassion, the Arab dictators and elites have treated the Palestinians like lepers.  Whilst there are examples of Israeli brutality onto the camps, none (capable of holding a thought in their heads) can compare that to Syrian and Jordanian oppression.

Like the denial of the Armenian genocide or Austria&#039;s doctrine of &#039;First Victim&#039;, it is violence primarily against the denier and their history.  It is looking down a stereoscope wearing a eyepatch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shmuel. It is a bit, isn&#8217;t it</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a phase i found in Paul Blokker&#8217;s work on Eastern Europe, &#8216;Crisis Narrative&#8217;.  Ideological movements need some kind of historical motivation for acting and for acting &#8216;ideologically&#8217;.  It helps sustain social scision and conflict long after the material promises evaporate.  By depicting a catastrosphic &#8216;descent&#8217; and holding out the promises of fiery return, the ideologue can both legitimise any act and condone inaction as part of a grand historical mechanism.  Conjoining Volenteerism and Fatalism, that is the key, the will for power to the chosen elite, part inertia, part choreographed movement for the masses.</p>
<p>The Nakba was a tragedy, but not like the easy moral tale of the Nationalists, Pan-Arabists and Islamists.  The tragedy is that hundreds of thousands left, some pushed by low level Israeli violence, most by the promises of the Arab leaders to &#8216;return&#8217; them.  Then for sixty years, they have been parked like refuse around the Arab world, used as symbols of various craptrap ideologies whilst being distained and discriminated against.  When Israel has treated its refugees from the progoms and expulsions of the Middle east with a modicum of aid and compassion, the Arab dictators and elites have treated the Palestinians like lepers.  Whilst there are examples of Israeli brutality onto the camps, none (capable of holding a thought in their heads) can compare that to Syrian and Jordanian oppression.</p>
<p>Like the denial of the Armenian genocide or Austria&#8217;s doctrine of &#8216;First Victim&#8217;, it is violence primarily against the denier and their history.  It is looking down a stereoscope wearing a eyepatch</p>
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