http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm
http://www.serendipity.li/more/finkel.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8029574.stm

Of course if you’re claiming that Jews are in fact a nationality, like German, then you’re saying that Marx was a dual national (as evidenced by your poor analogy re: giving up citizenship when moving to England). But if you accept Jews as a nationality, you’re veering close to the dreaded Zionism. My own take is that Jews are a special case: religion, ethnic group and nationality, and all and none of the above. Of course that doesn’t fit into the rational little boxes lefties like you (and, to be fair, many others) are so fond of, but human life is more complex than that. If you don’t think so, consider Le Corbusier’s nice rational socialist architecture and how reviled it is by just about anybody who had to live in or near it.

Of course nobody is answering your original question, because it’s unanswerable. How do I or you or anybody know “how much the u.s. should be subsidizing Israel?” All we can offer are opinions, ranging from $0 to $infinity. So stop asking such an idiotic, unanswerable question.

Also, the aid Israel does receive from the U.S. is about $3 billion. Let’s say another $3 billion for arms. That’s $6 billion. A nice chunk of change for an individual or a destitute African country, but let’s put it in perspective, before we start talking about how it could benefit Americans if it were kept there. Obama’s stimulus package is $787 billion or some such number. The U.S. is predicting a $1 trillion (that’s 1,000 billion) deficit. In short, the U.S. aid to Israel argument is a red herring and just an excuse to hammer away at Israel. From the Israeli point of view, the annual budget is somewhere between $50-60 billion; So the $3 or $6 billion Israel gets from the U.S., though significant, would not alter all that much, especially if one considers that most of the aid goes to defence, and if there was peace between Israel and her neighbours, it would not be necessary.

Finally, had Rosa Luxembourg not been killed and had she subsequently survived the Nazi Holocaust of Jews, it would have been interesting to hear whether or not her views on Zionism would have changed. After all, so many Leftie anti-Zionist jews did become supportive of a Jewish state because their alternative — making their own states hospitable for jews — had proven to be a mirage, at least in Europe. Overall, the idea of using pre-holocaust quotations to discuss Zionism is ridiculous, as Isaac Deutscher and many other former anti-Zionists recanted after WWII and became staunch supporters of Israel, though not of all her policies.

“I suppose that means he was not German either?”

Krudst: Marx was born in 1818. He (according to Wiki) renounced his Prussian Citizenship in 1845. He was then 27 years old. Plenty of time to have a solid German cultural heritage (without quotation marks).
In contrast, he was baptized at SIX, BY HIS CONVERTED FATHER YOU NUMBSKULL!!!!
Can’t you spot the difference, imbecil???

“i don’t think he’s an obsessive anti jewish racist,”

well, you could be right, but let’s consider the evidence, on all previous threads that I read, “KRonstadt” has never expressed one positive political idea, he only becomes agitated when the topic relates to either Jews or Israel. He expresses completely negative, ahistorical arguments in that context, etc.

and if someone only trolls on anti-Jewish/anti-Israeli themes, well, then I’d suggest that they have some serious issues and maybe shouldn’t be given the benefit of the doubt, as a result.

Maybe he’s at a half way house stage?

before he finally swings over to the Far Right, it has been known, even amongst anarchists, not very common, but….

Instead of thinking of Israel as a thing, try looking at Israel as people.

The Arabs are also people, however they are richly blessed in land and resources.

The Jews are not.

Nevertheless, both Israel and the Jewish people have made contributions to the rest of mankind.

And, both have been subject to extermination attempts.

The US should and does, as a matter of morality, help the Jewish people (and Israel) survive.

The 22 Arab League nations, who absorb countless billions in oil money AND foreign aid, should redistribute their wealth and resources more equitably and help the Palestinian people by freeing them from their ghettos, opening their borders and proferring citizenship. They should also donate some of the vast land and oil resources to help the Palestinian people whom they helped disenfranchise by inciting war.

This includes putting conditions on those who want to exterminate Jews and/or other minorities and/or repress women and and/or suppress dissent. Arab leadership has a responsibility here and this goes double for Iran, which actually has gone backwards in these matters.

Were the Arabs and other players in the oil rich Middle East, Central Asia and Africa to back off trying to help exterminate the Jews/Israel and help integrate the Palestinians, the US wouldn’t be in the position of trying to help the Israelis defend themselves because their would be no need. The state of constant war would at least be lessened in intensity and danger.

Moreover, in re US subsidies: much aid to Israel is in the form of loan guarantees, which comes right back to the US and thus the American taxpayer.

And, the US tells Israel what to do in many cases, including preventing the Israelis from selling their own products – in some industries the Israelis are partners with the US and in other ways competitors.

Regardless, speaking of the Marxist ideal, to each, from each. The Israelis lack land and resources but contribute greatly.

And, unless Ms Rondstadt and her ilk are willing to see another bloodbath and genocide the US is doing the right thing by helping the Israeli people survive. Indeed they are leveling the playing field a tiny bit, which by looking at a map one can see is seriously skewed already.

I suppose however looking at a map, some population figures and at tables of oil and gas revenues, is too much to ask economic experts like Ms. R., as apparently is the idea of looking at Israel and seeing human beings. And apparently it is also too much to ask that, speaking of economic redistribution, the Arabs help the Arabs.

Sheese.

Whatever.

Israelinurse: but doesn’t he have the right to be concerned about the tentacles of the global Jewish capitalist conspiracy?