Comments on: “The Diaspora” http://hurryupharry.org/2009/04/10/%e2%80%9cthe-diaspora%e2%80%9d/ Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:22:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Daniel S http://hurryupharry.org/2009/04/10/%e2%80%9cthe-diaspora%e2%80%9d/comment-page-3/#comment-329645 Daniel S Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:01:10 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=15236#comment-329645 BenC, you said Arab and I said palestinian. There is a big difference. Nobody can deny that there were arabs that left/were expelled/whatever 1948; what I question is whether there was a national group known as the palestinians or a group of people who had national aspirations to have a 'palestinian state'. In 1948, I don't believe that there were. In 2009 there is no denying it. Someone, whether or not the palestinian people WERE an invention to annihilate Israel there are 4-5m (maybe more) people who genuinely believe that they ARE palestinian and this group of people want a state. So regardless of the origins of the palestinian people, they exist because the palestinians believe that they exist. end of. BenC, you said Arab and I said palestinian. There is a big difference.

Nobody can deny that there were arabs that left/were expelled/whatever 1948; what I question is whether there was a national group known as the palestinians or a group of people who had national aspirations to have a ‘palestinian state’. In 1948, I don’t believe that there were. In 2009 there is no denying it.

Someone, whether or not the palestinian people WERE an invention to annihilate Israel there are 4-5m (maybe more) people who genuinely believe that they ARE palestinian and this group of people want a state. So regardless of the origins of the palestinian people, they exist because the palestinians believe that they exist. end of.

]]> By: Philo-Semite http://hurryupharry.org/2009/04/10/%e2%80%9cthe-diaspora%e2%80%9d/comment-page-3/#comment-329589 Philo-Semite Mon, 13 Apr 2009 19:42:43 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=15236#comment-329589 Superb article, DaveM. My congratulations to you and to Harry's. Superb article, DaveM. My congratulations to you and to Harry’s.

]]> By: Someone http://hurryupharry.org/2009/04/10/%e2%80%9cthe-diaspora%e2%80%9d/comment-page-3/#comment-329548 Someone Mon, 13 Apr 2009 17:37:40 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=15236#comment-329548 "I ignore international law on this point. I’m well aware that if we really kept to the letter of the law a palestinian state anywhere west of the river Jordan is illegal. However, I choose not to accept that." "The past 60 years have changed a lot for the region and whilst there may not have been a palestinian people in 1948, in 2009 there most definitely is. These people have national aspirations and have a right to self-determination. " There most certainly is not. It is an invention designed specifically to annihilate Israel. The fact that you choose to "accept" anti-Israel lies but you "choose" not to accept the real facts, is very revealing. “I ignore international law on this point. I’m well aware that if we really kept to the letter of the law a palestinian state anywhere west of the river Jordan is illegal. However, I choose not to accept that.”

“The past 60 years have changed a lot for the region and whilst there may not have been a palestinian people in 1948, in 2009 there most definitely is. These people have national aspirations and have a right to self-determination. ”

There most certainly is not. It is an invention designed specifically to annihilate Israel.

The fact that you choose to “accept” anti-Israel lies but you “choose” not to accept the real facts, is very revealing.

]]> By: Someone http://hurryupharry.org/2009/04/10/%e2%80%9cthe-diaspora%e2%80%9d/comment-page-3/#comment-329545 Someone Mon, 13 Apr 2009 17:34:44 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=15236#comment-329545 BenC recycles Chomsky's lies and other hoaxes. That tells us all we need to know about him. BenC recycles Chomsky’s lies and other hoaxes. That tells us all we need to know about him.

]]> By: David All http://hurryupharry.org/2009/04/10/%e2%80%9cthe-diaspora%e2%80%9d/comment-page-3/#comment-329528 David All Mon, 13 Apr 2009 15:36:33 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=15236#comment-329528 Ignore BenC's lies, distortions and smears, especially any that come via Chomsky. Facts are indeed stubborn things, BenC, you should try and find some that are not distorted. Oh, and BenC, do not think it wise that you do not open your mouth again before you withdraw your head from the sand. Ignore BenC’s lies, distortions and smears, especially any that come via Chomsky. Facts are indeed stubborn things, BenC, you should try and find some that are not distorted.

Oh, and BenC, do not think it wise that you do not open your mouth again before you withdraw your head from the sand.

]]> By: BenC http://hurryupharry.org/2009/04/10/%e2%80%9cthe-diaspora%e2%80%9d/comment-page-3/#comment-329514 BenC Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:55:10 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=15236#comment-329514 2009 there most definitely is." </i> Like most hardcore zionist extremists, DanielS, you are in denial. Lets have a look at what Israel's democratically elected Prime Ministers had to say about whether Palestinian people existed in 1948: <i> "We must expel Arabs and take their places." -- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985. "There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" -- Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122. "Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population." -- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99. "Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country." -- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech." </i> Facts are facts, even if you stick your head in the sand. 2009 there most definitely is.”

Like most hardcore zionist extremists, DanielS, you are in denial.

Lets have a look at what Israel’s democratically elected Prime Ministers had to say about whether Palestinian people existed in 1948:


“We must expel Arabs and take their places.”
– David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

“There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”
– Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.

“Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population.”
– David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.

“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country.”
– David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.”


Facts are facts, even if you stick your head in the sand.

]]> By: Daniel S http://hurryupharry.org/2009/04/10/%e2%80%9cthe-diaspora%e2%80%9d/comment-page-3/#comment-329497 Daniel S Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:37:13 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=15236#comment-329497 <blockquote>Under the Mandate, NO part was intended to be an Arab state. Look it up. There was a partition plan that the Jews accepted with a heavy heart for pragmatic reasons. However, it never happened for reasons we are all familiar with, being rejected by one of the parties. That plan, therefore, never had any legal existence whatever.</blockquote> I ignore international law on this point. I'm well aware that if we really kept to the letter of the law a palestinian state anywhere west of the river Jordan is illegal. However, I choose not to accept that. The past 60 years have changed a lot for the region and whilst there may not have been a palestinian people in 1948, in 2009 there most definitely is. These people have national aspirations and have a right to self-determination. Sadly, we have to compromise because of this.

Under the Mandate, NO part was intended to be an Arab state. Look it up.
There was a partition plan that the Jews accepted with a heavy heart for pragmatic reasons. However, it never happened for reasons we are all familiar with, being rejected by one of the parties. That plan, therefore, never had any legal existence whatever.

I ignore international law on this point. I’m well aware that if we really kept to the letter of the law a palestinian state anywhere west of the river Jordan is illegal. However, I choose not to accept that.

The past 60 years have changed a lot for the region and whilst there may not have been a palestinian people in 1948, in 2009 there most definitely is. These people have national aspirations and have a right to self-determination. Sadly, we have to compromise because of this.

]]> By: BenC http://hurryupharry.org/2009/04/10/%e2%80%9cthe-diaspora%e2%80%9d/comment-page-3/#comment-329417 BenC Mon, 13 Apr 2009 03:45:14 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=15236#comment-329417 <i>"This vile anti-Semite rejects the Jewish claim to Israel, but accepts that of the Arabs who conquered it 1500 years after King David."</I> Well, if you check out <a href='http://azvsas.blogspot.com/2008/10/fancy-that-david-taube-signs-up-to.html' rel="nofollow">Tony Greenstein's blog</a>, it would appear that <b>David T</b> rejected the very same, when he signed the statement below: <i>"We, entitled to the privileges accorded under the Israeli Law of Return to Jews and their close relatives, declare our opposition to the state of Israel as a Jewish state and to the Zionist movement. We call on our fellow Jews and their close relatives to join us in making the following statement: * the Palestinian people, at whose expense the state of Israel was established and continues to exist, have the right to return, to self-determination and to their independent state on Palestinian soil; * the Palestine Liberation Organisation is the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people; * the state of Israel does not represent all Jewish people, neither legally, morally nor in any other way; * the Zionist structure of the state of Israel is at the heart of the racism and oppression against the Palestinian people, and should be dismantled.” So what's changed since he signed it? “This vile anti-Semite rejects the Jewish claim to Israel, but accepts that of the Arabs who conquered it 1500 years after King David.”

Well, if you check out Tony Greenstein’s blog, it would appear that David T rejected the very same, when he signed the statement below:

“We, entitled to the privileges accorded under the Israeli Law of Return to Jews and their close relatives, declare our opposition to the state of Israel as a Jewish state and to the Zionist movement. We call on our fellow Jews and their close relatives to join us in making the following statement:

* the Palestinian people, at whose expense the state of Israel was established and continues to exist, have the right to return, to self-determination and to their independent state on Palestinian soil;

* the Palestine Liberation Organisation is the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people;

* the state of Israel does not represent all Jewish people, neither legally, morally nor in any other way;

* the Zionist structure of the state of Israel is at the heart of the racism and oppression against the Palestinian people, and should be dismantled.”

So what’s changed since he signed it?

]]> By: Jakealope http://hurryupharry.org/2009/04/10/%e2%80%9cthe-diaspora%e2%80%9d/comment-page-3/#comment-329303 Jakealope Sun, 12 Apr 2009 18:39:37 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=15236#comment-329303 Hasbara Buster is correct, calling Hamas terrorists and thugs is simple minded and incorrect. Better call them for what they are: violent, fascistic jihading vermin who can only create a miserable theocracy devoted to destroying anything not up to their pristine Islamic standards. Their religious bigotry itself is so appalling that they can not be referred to as civilized. Hitler and the Nazis, remember, delivered a lot of good educational, jobs and social services, to "good" Germans of course. Hasbara Buster is correct, calling Hamas terrorists and thugs is simple minded and incorrect. Better call them for what they are: violent, fascistic jihading vermin who can only create a miserable theocracy devoted to destroying anything not up to their pristine Islamic standards. Their religious bigotry itself is so appalling that they can not be referred to as civilized. Hitler and the Nazis, remember, delivered a lot of good educational, jobs and social services, to “good” Germans of course.

]]> By: Jakealope http://hurryupharry.org/2009/04/10/%e2%80%9cthe-diaspora%e2%80%9d/comment-page-3/#comment-329301 Jakealope Sun, 12 Apr 2009 18:33:44 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=15236#comment-329301 That they could recycle such vile anti-Semitic garbage like using blood to make matzoh or the Jews collaborated with Hitler shows these people are just scum. It was they who collaborated with Hitler and like the good Germans who supported them, they are legitimate targets That they could recycle such vile anti-Semitic garbage like using blood to make matzoh or the Jews collaborated with Hitler shows these people are just scum. It was they who collaborated with Hitler and like the good Germans who supported them, they are legitimate targets

]]>