Comments on: Muslim Council of Britain Out in the Cold, Again http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/22/muslim-council-of-britain-out-in-the-cold-again/ Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear Fri, 25 May 2012 14:12:23 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Serendipity http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/22/muslim-council-of-britain-out-in-the-cold-again/comment-page-4/#comment-321115 Serendipity Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:09:15 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=14256#comment-321115 PS To Richard Farnos See also http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=9999&x_article=1647 PS To Richard Farnos

See also

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=9999&x_article=1647

]]> By: Serendipity http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/22/muslim-council-of-britain-out-in-the-cold-again/comment-page-4/#comment-321109 Serendipity Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:50:48 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=14256#comment-321109 Richard Farnos, before you are so quick to believe everything you read in Ha'aretz, you should look at the following. You will see that the Ha'aretz story is not as clear-cut as it or you would have us believe, indeed it smacks of similar standard of reporting as the Guardian: <i>" It seems that what soldiers have to say is actually the way things happened in the field, most of the time. And as usual, reality is completely different from the gentler version provided by the military commanders to the public and media during the operation and after. "The soldiers are not lying, for the simple reason that they have no reason to. If you read the transcript that will appear in Haaretz Friday, you will not find any judgment or boasting. This is what the soldiers, from their point of view, saw in Gaza. There is a continuity of testimony from different sectors that reflects a disturbing and depressing picture. </i>" And note the following opinion which is portrayed as fact. Note also the "..from what I understood from most of my men that I talked to...." - more hearsay: <i> "I don't think he felt too bad about it, because after all, as far as he was concerned, he did his job according to the orders he was given. And the atmosphere in general, from what I understood from most of my men who I talked to ... I don't know how to describe it .... The lives of Palestinians, let's say, is something very, very less important than the lives of our soldiers. So as far as they are concerned they can justify it that way," he said." </i> (Doubtless Hamas views the lives of Israelis and certainly Fatah similarly) And following is from a letter in today's Independent online: <i>"...Of course they do not tell us that Danny Zamir – the head of the Rabin pre-military academy whom they quote – has a long history of conscientious objection in a country where military service has been existentially necessary throughout the 60 years of its existence. "Of course they do not tell us that the old woman was approaching the soldiers after being warned not to. She was probably innocent, but could have been a suicide bomber. Moreover it is not clear that she was shot; it may simply have been the case that there was an argument over whether to shoot someone who was approaching soldiers in a suspicious way. "Of course in the context of the woman and two children who were reportedly shot by a sniper after soldiers ordered them from their house, they do not tell us that civilians have been frequently used as suicide bombers. <b>"And of course they do not tell us that further investigation by Israeli media suggests both incidents may not even have happened: the soldier who reported both alleged events did not even witness them – he heard them as a rumour." "....Channel 2 TV Army correspondent Roni Daniel stated at 6:30 PM on March 19th, that he personally tracked down one of the soldiers interviewed for the Haaretz article. Apparently the soldier's testimony to Haaretz wasn't based on anything he personally saw or witnessed, rather based on rumors and hearsay he heard (and the soldier wasn't even in Gaza!) </b></i> (emphases mine). Nothing can detract from the scurrilous nature of this reporting of opinion and fiction as fact nor from the readiness of the media and people like you to accept it as fact. Why do you find it so easy to suspend your critical faculties in order to be able to do that? What does that say about the (lack of) ethical standards of the press? Richard Farnos, before you are so quick to believe everything you read in Ha’aretz, you should look at the following. You will see that the Ha’aretz story is not as clear-cut as it or you would have us believe, indeed it smacks of similar standard of reporting as the Guardian:

” It seems that what soldiers have to say is actually the way things happened in the field, most of the time. And as usual, reality is completely different from the gentler version provided by the military commanders to the public and media during the operation and after.

“The soldiers are not lying, for the simple reason that they have no reason to. If you read the transcript that will appear in Haaretz Friday, you will not find any judgment or boasting. This is what the soldiers, from their point of view, saw in Gaza. There is a continuity of testimony from different sectors that reflects a disturbing and depressing picture. ”

And note the following opinion which is portrayed as fact. Note also the “..from what I understood from most of my men that I talked to….” – more hearsay:

“I don’t think he felt too bad about it, because after all, as far as he was concerned, he did his job according to the orders he was given. And the atmosphere in general, from what I understood from most of my men who I talked to … I don’t know how to describe it …. The lives of Palestinians, let’s say, is something very, very less important than the lives of our soldiers. So as far as they are concerned they can justify it that way,” he said.”

(Doubtless Hamas views the lives of Israelis and certainly Fatah similarly)

And following is from a letter in today’s Independent online:

“…Of course they do not tell us that Danny Zamir – the head of the Rabin pre-military academy whom they quote – has a long history of conscientious objection in a country where military service has been existentially necessary throughout the 60 years of its existence.

“Of course they do not tell us that the old woman was approaching the soldiers after being warned not to. She was probably innocent, but could have been a suicide bomber. Moreover it is not clear that she was shot; it may simply have been the case that there was an argument over whether to shoot someone who was approaching soldiers in a suspicious way.

“Of course in the context of the woman and two children who were reportedly shot by a sniper after soldiers ordered them from their house, they do not tell us that civilians have been frequently used as suicide bombers.

“And of course they do not tell us that further investigation by Israeli media suggests both incidents may not even have happened: the soldier who reported both alleged events did not even witness them – he heard them as a rumour.”

“….Channel 2 TV Army correspondent Roni Daniel stated at 6:30 PM on March 19th, that he personally tracked down one of the soldiers interviewed for the Haaretz article. Apparently the soldier’s testimony to Haaretz wasn’t based on anything he personally saw or witnessed, rather based on rumors and hearsay he heard (and the soldier wasn’t even in Gaza!) (emphases mine).

Nothing can detract from the scurrilous nature of this reporting of opinion and fiction as fact nor from the readiness of the media and people like you to accept it as fact.

Why do you find it so easy to suspend your critical faculties in order to be able to do that?

What does that say about the (lack of) ethical standards of the press?

]]> By: Suffolk Booy http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/22/muslim-council-of-britain-out-in-the-cold-again/comment-page-4/#comment-321055 Suffolk Booy Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:15:46 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=14256#comment-321055 The central issue here is that at no point in its splenetic statement does the MCB deny that Daud Abdullah signed the declaration in Istanbul that quite plainly promulgates violence and makes provision for violence against British naval forces. Daud Abdullah has signed a document that potentially constitutes actual treason. Given that there are known to be British Muslims fighting (and almost certainly killing ) British service personnel in Afghanistan, coupled with the recent Luton farrago, it is becoming undeniable that a sub-section of the British Muslim community are prepared to go to war against the country of which they are citizens. That a body like the MCB should think it can give tacit support to such actions - and they may lead to a civil war in this country within several decades - and then think they can still sit at the table with government as a main-stream civic organisation beggars belief. Anyone engaged in physical conflict, the financing of physical conflict, or providing propaganda and political leadership to promote physical confllict against their own country is, by definition, a traitor. No state can allow number of its citizens to violently attack its forces, its institutions, its citizens and its public spaces. The state will have to act and have to act with force. Daud Abdullah is also a traitor to British Muslims. They have the most to lose from the fires of conflict that he and his ilk are so flagrantly stoking. The central issue here is that at no point in its splenetic statement does the MCB deny that Daud Abdullah signed the declaration in Istanbul that quite plainly promulgates violence and makes provision for violence against British naval forces.

Daud Abdullah has signed a document that potentially constitutes actual treason.

Given that there are known to be British Muslims fighting (and almost certainly killing ) British service personnel in Afghanistan, coupled with the recent Luton farrago, it is becoming undeniable that a sub-section of the British Muslim community are prepared to go to war against the country of which they are citizens.

That a body like the MCB should think it can give tacit support to such actions – and they may lead to a civil war in this country within several decades – and then think they can still sit at the table with government as a main-stream civic organisation beggars belief.

Anyone engaged in physical conflict, the financing of physical conflict, or providing propaganda and political leadership to promote physical confllict against their own country is, by definition, a traitor. No state can allow number of its citizens to violently attack its forces, its institutions, its citizens and its public spaces. The state will have to act and have to act with force.

Daud Abdullah is also a traitor to British Muslims. They have the most to lose from the fires of conflict that he and his ilk are so flagrantly stoking.

]]> By: Frothing Islamophobe Loony http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/22/muslim-council-of-britain-out-in-the-cold-again/comment-page-4/#comment-321054 Frothing Islamophobe Loony Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:05:32 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=14256#comment-321054 JIMAS 16th International Da'wah Conference BEING INSPIRED BY THE BEST GENERATIONS Saturday 23rd May & Sunday 24th May 2009(Bank Holiday weekend) A two day non-residential conference to be held at:<b>The London Muslim Centre, 46 Whitechapel Road,London E1 1JX</b> Very limited spaces, so hurry and apply immediately! Visit: http://www.jimas.org/conf09/conf09.htm CONFIRMED SPEAKERS: <b>Salim Al-Amry</b> http://www.islamictube.net/watch/5faf17f6f7f1d7f4b5fc/Salem-Al-Amry---Dajjal (9:30) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRG5RkAkXzk Mamdouh Mohamed Hesham Al Awadi Shabir Ally Abu Aaliyah JIMAS 16th International Da’wah Conference

BEING INSPIRED BY THE BEST GENERATIONS

Saturday 23rd May & Sunday 24th May 2009(Bank Holiday weekend)

A two day non-residential conference to be held at:The London Muslim Centre, 46 Whitechapel Road,London E1 1JX

Very limited spaces, so hurry and apply immediately! Visit:

http://www.jimas.org/conf09/conf09.htm

CONFIRMED SPEAKERS:
Salim Al-Amry

http://www.islamictube.net/watch/5faf17f6f7f1d7f4b5fc/Salem-Al-Amry—Dajjal (9:30)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRG5RkAkXzk

Mamdouh Mohamed
Hesham Al Awadi
Shabir Ally
Abu Aaliyah

]]> By: Someone http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/22/muslim-council-of-britain-out-in-the-cold-again/comment-page-3/#comment-321031 Someone Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:08:25 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=14256#comment-321031 "this evidence comes from frontline IDF soldiers" It doesn't, actually. You have it from journalists who are printing anecdotal evidence. “this evidence comes from frontline IDF soldiers”

It doesn’t, actually. You have it from journalists who are printing anecdotal evidence.

]]> By: Frothing Islamophobe Loony http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/22/muslim-council-of-britain-out-in-the-cold-again/comment-page-3/#comment-321023 Frothing Islamophobe Loony Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:54:53 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=14256#comment-321023 <em>Mixtogether, you ask about the possibility of moderate Muslims forming a new group in the UK. Seriously, does anyone personally know one, or someone who thinks they know one? If so, why are the so shy?</em> Colin, it was you I saw goose-stepping down Barking High St. the other day in your favourite SS uniform, wasn't it? Mixtogether, you ask about the possibility of moderate Muslims forming a new group in the UK. Seriously, does anyone personally know one, or someone who thinks they know one? If so, why are the so shy?

Colin, it was you I saw goose-stepping down Barking High St. the other day in your favourite SS uniform, wasn’t it?

]]> By: Clap Hammer http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/22/muslim-council-of-britain-out-in-the-cold-again/comment-page-3/#comment-321007 Clap Hammer Mon, 23 Mar 2009 08:37:59 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=14256#comment-321007 <i>A letter leaked to The Independent on Sunday shows that the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, Hazel Blears, wrote to the Muslim Council of Britain, calling for Dr Daud Abdullah to resign.</i> A demand for his resignation would be more appropriate but then, she probably didn't want to cause any offence. And the person that leaked should be found and punished. In this particular case, the government has almost become clean but I despair of their apologist attitude to extremist Muslim organisations. A letter leaked to The Independent on Sunday shows that the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, Hazel Blears, wrote to the Muslim Council of Britain, calling for Dr Daud Abdullah to resign.

A demand for his resignation would be more appropriate but then, she probably didn’t want to cause any offence.

And the person that leaked should be found and punished.

In this particular case, the government has almost become clean but I despair of their apologist attitude to extremist Muslim organisations.

]]> By: Israelinurse http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/22/muslim-council-of-britain-out-in-the-cold-again/comment-page-3/#comment-321000 Israelinurse Mon, 23 Mar 2009 07:44:38 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=14256#comment-321000 Richard Farnos -briefly (because the train to Manchester won't wait for me) -if you and the rest of the West want to have the legitimacy to pass judgement on conflicts in the rest of the world then you must earn that legitimacy by being honest and objective. If you're going to throw a fit about Israeli behaviour in combat then you must also judge Hamas behaviour by the same standards. Unfortunately, that does not happen because the real reason behind your 'moral outrage' is not concern for human rights etc.( may I remind you that Israelis are human too) but rather a weapon in your arsenal of anti-Israeli propoganda. This applies to individuals like yourself, NGOs, the UN, political parties and governments. There's a real war going on, and for people to use it for their own ends -in order to accquire the ultimate state of the art fashion accessory- is not only cynical, it shows the ultimate disregard for human life, not a concern for it. Richard Farnos -briefly (because the train to Manchester won’t wait for me) -if you and the rest of the West want to have the legitimacy to pass judgement on conflicts in the rest of the world then you must earn that legitimacy by being honest and objective.
If you’re going to throw a fit about Israeli behaviour in combat then you must also judge Hamas behaviour by the same standards. Unfortunately, that does not happen because the real reason behind your ‘moral outrage’ is not concern for human rights etc.( may I remind you that Israelis are human too) but rather a weapon in your arsenal of anti-Israeli propoganda.
This applies to individuals like yourself, NGOs, the UN, political parties and governments.
There’s a real war going on, and for people to use it for their own ends -in order to accquire the ultimate state of the art fashion accessory- is not only cynical, it shows the ultimate disregard for human life, not a concern for it.

]]> By: antish http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/22/muslim-council-of-britain-out-in-the-cold-again/comment-page-3/#comment-320994 antish Mon, 23 Mar 2009 05:26:10 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=14256#comment-320994 Josh Scholar, thanks for that. If it's in the Hamas charter, then enough said - scumbags. (If it's a Hadith, big deal. My point about the bashing out the brains of babies as recommended in the Bible - and, as it's Old Testament, I assume Jewish books as well - stands.) Josh Scholar, thanks for that. If it’s in the Hamas charter, then enough said – scumbags.

(If it’s a Hadith, big deal. My point about the bashing out the brains of babies as recommended in the Bible – and, as it’s Old Testament, I assume Jewish books as well – stands.)

]]> By: Colin http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/22/muslim-council-of-britain-out-in-the-cold-again/comment-page-3/#comment-320993 Colin Mon, 23 Mar 2009 05:11:04 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=14256#comment-320993 Mixtogether, you ask about the possibility of moderate Muslims forming a new group in the UK. Seriously, does anyone personally know one, or someone who thinks they know one? If so, why are the so shy? Mixtogether, you ask about the possibility of moderate Muslims forming a new group in the UK. Seriously, does anyone personally know one, or someone who thinks they know one? If so, why are the so shy?

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