Comments on: London Hamasniks and Interpal http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/06/london-hamasniks-and-interpal/ Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:52:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: B.P. http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/06/london-hamasniks-and-interpal/comment-page-2/#comment-314728 B.P. Mon, 09 Mar 2009 00:09:14 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=13678#comment-314728 Let me clarify something...when i mentioned BNP thugs i was referring to the handful of hatemongers on here...I do not consier you a nutter, your a nationalist and there is nothing wrong with that apart from being open to legitimate criticism. As for withdrawing to 67 borders, i dont mean just pulling back the tanks, i mean drawing a line and saying to the World anything beyond this line belongs to the Palestinians, they are free to live there without us controlling any crossings and ruling every part of their life! As for the ceasefire, for the full 4 months of the ceasefire not a single rocket was fired by Hamas (Mark Regev is on record confirming this) Israel on November the 4th crossed into Gaza killing 6 people saying Hamas were trying to Kidnap a soldier, not a single israeli was killed during the ceasfire. As for the people of Gaza creating a decent life for themselces..are you serious?? Apart from food and essentials what did Israel let in? Tony Blair lined up 25-30 regeneration projects in Gaza following his Quartet appointment. Every single one of those failed to get off the ground because of the Israeli siege. They wouldn’t even let in the raw materials to build the factories. Not only that, the Israelis expelled Palestinian entrepreneurs - who had returned from exile in the UK and created successful businesses there - by refusing to renew their residence permits. As a result, they were forced to leave and their businesses failed. Meanwhile, Israel continued to build illegal settlements in the West Bank. Give the palestinians real freedom without any siege or trade restrictions and then see how it unfolds. If it doesnt work out im sure the IDF wont be destroying its rockets and hi tech weapons! Let me clarify something…when i mentioned BNP thugs i was referring to the handful of hatemongers on here…I do not consier you a nutter, your a nationalist and there is nothing wrong with that apart from being open to legitimate criticism.

As for withdrawing to 67 borders, i dont mean just pulling back the tanks, i mean drawing a line and saying to the World anything beyond this line belongs to the Palestinians, they are free to live there without us controlling any crossings and ruling every part of their life!

As for the ceasefire, for the full 4 months of the ceasefire not a single rocket was fired by Hamas (Mark Regev is on record confirming this) Israel on November the 4th crossed into Gaza killing 6 people saying Hamas were trying to Kidnap a soldier, not a single israeli was killed during the ceasfire.

As for the people of Gaza creating a decent life for themselces..are you serious?? Apart from food and essentials what did Israel let in? Tony Blair lined up 25-30 regeneration projects in Gaza following his Quartet appointment. Every single one of those failed to get off the ground because of the Israeli siege. They wouldn’t even let in the raw materials to build the factories.

Not only that, the Israelis expelled Palestinian entrepreneurs – who had returned from exile in the UK and created successful businesses there – by refusing to renew their residence permits. As a result, they were forced to leave and their businesses failed.

Meanwhile, Israel continued to build illegal settlements in the West Bank.

Give the palestinians real freedom without any siege or trade restrictions and then see how it unfolds. If it doesnt work out im sure the IDF wont be destroying its rockets and hi tech weapons!

]]> By: Israelinurse http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/06/london-hamasniks-and-interpal/comment-page-2/#comment-314722 Israelinurse Sun, 08 Mar 2009 23:31:24 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=13678#comment-314722 BP -you started off really well....I too am in favour of a Palestinian state and an Israeli state living side by side and hopefully trading, playing football, co-operating on agricultural and scientific projects etc. However, I'm sure you know that Hamas rejects this idea. Its charter expressly states that its aim is the destruction of Israel completely. To that, of course, I cannot agree. Fatah has already accepted the idea that there must be two states which is why Israel is prepared to negotiate with them. When Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 I really thought that this was the dawn of a new era and that the people of Gaza would begin to create a decent life for themselves there. After all, they got what they had been saying they wanted for years: Israel withdrew to 1967 borders. But that wasn't enough for Hamas was it? They want every last Israeli out of the area completely, so they upped the rocket attacks on Israelis living INSIDE the '67 borders. You know, when Olmert was elected in 2006 part of his manifesto was to withdraw from the West Bank too, but after the Israeli people saw that all we got for leaving Gaza was rockets, they would not support this any longer. And I'm sure you also know that the reason Israel's agreements with Fatah (Oslo) broke down was because of the first intefada. Criticism of Israel is legitimate. I don't know if you actually know any Israelis BP, but if you do you will know that the harshest critics of our state are we ourselves. It is a question of style, accuracy and the type of language chosen. Mostly the language used by anti-Israeli campaigners is aggressive and offensive. For instance, if you call me a nutter or a BNP thug, I am hardly likely to want to listen to your opinions, am I? And I think that it is perfectly legitimate for a person to hold an opinion different than your own without being a 'nutter' -no? If you can find a way to stop using propoganda style slogans and actually address the issues at hand then I'm sure we can talk. BP -you started off really well….I too am in favour of a Palestinian state and an Israeli state living side by side and hopefully trading, playing football, co-operating on agricultural and scientific projects etc.
However, I’m sure you know that Hamas rejects this idea. Its charter expressly states that its aim is the destruction of Israel completely. To that, of course, I cannot agree.
Fatah has already accepted the idea that there must be two states which is why Israel is prepared to negotiate with them.
When Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 I really thought that this was the dawn of a new era and that the people of Gaza would begin to create a decent life for themselves there. After all, they got what they had been saying they wanted for years: Israel withdrew to 1967 borders.
But that wasn’t enough for Hamas was it? They want every last Israeli out of the area completely, so they upped the rocket attacks on Israelis living INSIDE the ‘67 borders.
You know, when Olmert was elected in 2006 part of his manifesto was to withdraw from the West Bank too, but after the Israeli people saw that all we got for leaving Gaza was rockets, they would not support this any longer.
And I’m sure you also know that the reason Israel’s agreements with Fatah (Oslo) broke down was because of the first intefada.

Criticism of Israel is legitimate. I don’t know if you actually know any Israelis BP, but if you do you will know that the harshest critics of our state are we ourselves. It is a question of style, accuracy and the type of language chosen. Mostly the language used by anti-Israeli campaigners is aggressive and offensive.
For instance, if you call me a nutter or a BNP thug, I am hardly likely to want to listen to your opinions, am I? And I think that it is perfectly legitimate for a person to hold an opinion different than your own without being a ‘nutter’ -no?
If you can find a way to stop using propoganda style slogans and actually address the issues at hand then I’m sure we can talk.

]]> By: B.P. http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/06/london-hamasniks-and-interpal/comment-page-1/#comment-314714 B.P. Sun, 08 Mar 2009 22:55:09 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=13678#comment-314714 Nurse> You and a handfull of Nutters here equate criticism of Israel as hatred towards Jews, well let me tell you my two kids were given tuition for a number of years by a lovely Jewish couple, the Imam of the Mosque i goto is part of a multifaith group which includes Rabbis etc we share advice on tackling drugs, youth etc Criticism of Israel or the IDF does not equate to hatred of Jewish people. Nurse> You and a handfull of Nutters here equate criticism of Israel as hatred towards Jews, well let me tell you my two kids were given tuition for a number of years by a lovely Jewish couple, the Imam of the Mosque i goto is part of a multifaith group which includes Rabbis etc we share advice on tackling drugs, youth etc

Criticism of Israel or the IDF does not equate to hatred of Jewish people.

]]> By: B.P. http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/06/london-hamasniks-and-interpal/comment-page-1/#comment-314710 B.P. Sun, 08 Mar 2009 22:46:45 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=13678#comment-314710 My solution to the crisis is Israel go back to pre 67 borders...accept an independent palestine with UN peace keepers to ensure security for all...is that too much to ask for? Would that be acceptable to you? I am pretty certain a referendum in Palestine would pass this as a solution. I am against Hamas firing indiscriminate Rockets into Israel, I am against any Palestinian using Suicide tactics to target civillians...What I am not against though is Hamas as an organisation...they have a legitimate cause, they are there to combat occupation, as an organisation they run hospitals, schools etc...i am sure if someone moved into your house you would not sit there and accept it! Hamas came to power because Israel failed to work out a solution with Fatah..in fact there is mileage in the view that Israel indirectly supported Hamas in the beginning to undermine Fatah. If you create a monster it will come and bite you one day! My solution to the crisis is Israel go back to pre 67 borders…accept an independent palestine with UN peace keepers to ensure security for all…is that too much to ask for? Would that be acceptable to you? I am pretty certain a referendum in Palestine would pass this as a solution.

I am against Hamas firing indiscriminate Rockets into Israel, I am against any Palestinian using Suicide tactics to target civillians…What I am not against though is Hamas as an organisation…they have a legitimate cause, they are there to combat occupation, as an organisation they run hospitals, schools etc…i am sure if someone moved into your house you would not sit there and accept it!

Hamas came to power because Israel failed to work out a solution with Fatah..in fact there is mileage in the view that Israel indirectly supported Hamas in the beginning to undermine Fatah.

If you create a monster it will come and bite you one day!

]]> By: Israelinurse http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/06/london-hamasniks-and-interpal/comment-page-1/#comment-314692 Israelinurse Sun, 08 Mar 2009 22:16:48 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=13678#comment-314692 BP -yes, you are very quick to criticise the IDF, but I have yet to see you criticise Hamas. You are very quick to empathise with the Palestinian people, but I have yet to see you even recognise the fact that there ARE people in Israel, never mind empathise with them. So maybe you'd like to tell us what your solution is to the crisis? BP -yes, you are very quick to criticise the IDF, but I have yet to see you criticise Hamas.
You are very quick to empathise with the Palestinian people, but I have yet to see you even recognise the fact that there ARE people in Israel, never mind empathise with them.
So maybe you’d like to tell us what your solution is to the crisis?

]]> By: B.P. http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/06/london-hamasniks-and-interpal/comment-page-1/#comment-314625 B.P. Sun, 08 Mar 2009 21:04:32 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=13678#comment-314625 Nurse>> Tell me where iv shown hatred about Israels people! I criticise the IDF...are they beyond criticism? Most of you spend your lives criticising every Muslim organisation going yet when someone criticises the policies of Israel or the acts of the IDF, you equate it to hatred...I hope your fellow citizens dont all think like you because if they do there wont ever be a solution to the crisis. Nurse>> Tell me where iv shown hatred about Israels people! I criticise the IDF…are they beyond criticism? Most of you spend your lives criticising every Muslim organisation going yet when someone criticises the policies of Israel or the acts of the IDF, you equate it to hatred…I hope your fellow citizens dont all think like you because if they do there wont ever be a solution to the crisis.

]]> By: hasan prishtina http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/06/london-hamasniks-and-interpal/comment-page-1/#comment-314550 hasan prishtina Sun, 08 Mar 2009 16:09:50 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=13678#comment-314550 <i>Anyone of German origin can return to Germany you plonker.</i> That is the Federal Republic of Germany. There may be Germans in Kaliningrad, but they have no <i>right of return</i> there. Nor do they in Posen, Stettin, Oppeln, Breslau, Memel or Teplitz. Only in the German state <i>as it exists today.</i> So you are not comparing like with like. You demand a right of return for Palestinians, not in the modern area controlled by the PA or Hamas but to anywhere in what used to be Palestine. If you wish to be consistent, cite Germany if you're arguing for a right to return to the West Bank and Gaza. Not otherwise. Anyone of German origin can return to Germany you plonker.

That is the Federal Republic of Germany. There may be Germans in Kaliningrad, but they have no right of return there. Nor do they in Posen, Stettin, Oppeln, Breslau, Memel or Teplitz. Only in the German state as it exists today.

So you are not comparing like with like. You demand a right of return for Palestinians, not in the modern area controlled by the PA or Hamas but to anywhere in what used to be Palestine. If you wish to be consistent, cite Germany if you’re arguing for a right to return to the West Bank and Gaza. Not otherwise.

]]> By: Nearly Oxfordian http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/06/london-hamasniks-and-interpal/comment-page-1/#comment-314201 Nearly Oxfordian Sat, 07 Mar 2009 09:21:45 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=13678#comment-314201 Enrico, KR doesn't think. His 'analogy' of the German refugees is arse-backwards. It would only work as an analogy if he wanted millions of Germans to be repatriated to what was East Prussia to their former estates. Enrico, KR doesn’t think. His ‘analogy’ of the German refugees is arse-backwards. It would only work as an analogy if he wanted millions of Germans to be repatriated to what was East Prussia to their former estates.

]]> By: Enrico http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/06/london-hamasniks-and-interpal/comment-page-1/#comment-314189 Enrico Sat, 07 Mar 2009 07:44:43 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=13678#comment-314189 Kronstadt : How would you go about redressing the injustice of not allowing descendants of Arab refugees to return to Israel? You mention Germany's policy on ethnic Germans. Think seriously for a second. Would allowing all descendants of the 1948-9 Arab refugees settle in what is now Israel be in any way be comparable to the German policy of allowing Poles or Russians of German descent to emigrate to Germany? Germany : population around 80 million. Number of potential returnees from Eastern Europe : 1 or 2 million at most. Secondly : have these ethnic Germans from the East been taught that Germany shouldn't exist, that Germany is an evil country, that Germany is the cause of all their misfortune? Kronstadt, you apparently are a person who thinks, who has ideas (otherwise you wouldn't have chosen the pseudonym "Kronstadt" with all its historical connotations). Please re-examine your analogies and juxtapositions. Please think through how you would recommend carrying out the immigration of several million Palestinians to Israel. Tell us more about your vision of the future ("bi-national"?) state. Kronstadt :
How would you go about redressing the injustice of not allowing descendants of Arab refugees to return to Israel?
You mention Germany’s policy on ethnic Germans. Think seriously for a second. Would allowing all descendants of the 1948-9 Arab refugees settle in what is now Israel be in any way be comparable to the German policy of allowing Poles or Russians of German descent to emigrate to Germany?
Germany : population around 80 million. Number of potential returnees from Eastern Europe : 1 or 2 million at most.
Secondly : have these ethnic Germans from the East been taught that Germany shouldn’t exist, that Germany is an evil country, that Germany is the cause of all their misfortune?
Kronstadt, you apparently are a person who thinks, who has ideas (otherwise you wouldn’t have chosen the pseudonym “Kronstadt” with all its historical connotations). Please re-examine your analogies and juxtapositions. Please think through how you would recommend carrying out the immigration of several million Palestinians to Israel. Tell us more about your vision of the future (“bi-national”?) state.

]]> By: Israelinurse http://hurryupharry.org/2009/03/06/london-hamasniks-and-interpal/comment-page-1/#comment-314122 Israelinurse Fri, 06 Mar 2009 22:56:28 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=13678#comment-314122 NO -yes, quite amusing I thought! For a member of an ethnic minority who has never voted further right than Meretz to be equated to a BNP thug is pure Monty Python. NO -yes, quite amusing I thought! For a member of an ethnic minority who has never voted further right than Meretz to be equated to a BNP thug is pure Monty Python.

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