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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Seven Jewish Children &#8211; A play for Gaza &#8221; &#8211; by Caryl Churchill at the Royal Court</title>
	<atom:link href="http://hurryupharry.org/2009/02/08/seven-jewish-children-a-play-for-gaza-by-caryl-churchill-at-the-royal-court/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/02/08/seven-jewish-children-a-play-for-gaza-by-caryl-churchill-at-the-royal-court/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: Jaafar</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/02/08/seven-jewish-children-a-play-for-gaza-by-caryl-churchill-at-the-royal-court/comment-page-6/#comment-383692</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaafar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:48:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=12684#comment-383692</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t understand people always hate jewish  without any reason, I am suprise this kind of ilogical idea, if you look at the history the jewish are owner of middle east land, and they were native of the  Israel land, even north east Egypt land was belong to jewish people before thousands years ago it is known, however after jewish emigrated to Europe and Russia and to toward other world wide countries before frist world war, then Arab came and settled in the middle east and now the Arab countries stick together and they crying racism against Israel that they pretending against jewish in every occassion it is not good,
if you look to the entire Arab media that their media always showing fake news and unfair broadcast and Arab countries are still not feeling shame about this issue in anyway. in the meantime and Arab islamic countries has growing extremism ideology and radical behavior in whole islamic countries and muslim socities through by the chaotic and meaningless manipulation of the people.

*What is Arab countries exactly want from the jewish people?

*why Arab counties having desire to remove jewish people from the land of the Israel?
  
*where the Arab people want to put jewish people rather than their own native land?

*why the hatred always from Arab counties to the toward other people?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand people always hate jewish  without any reason, I am suprise this kind of ilogical idea, if you look at the history the jewish are owner of middle east land, and they were native of the  Israel land, even north east Egypt land was belong to jewish people before thousands years ago it is known, however after jewish emigrated to Europe and Russia and to toward other world wide countries before frist world war, then Arab came and settled in the middle east and now the Arab countries stick together and they crying racism against Israel that they pretending against jewish in every occassion it is not good,<br />
if you look to the entire Arab media that their media always showing fake news and unfair broadcast and Arab countries are still not feeling shame about this issue in anyway. in the meantime and Arab islamic countries has growing extremism ideology and radical behavior in whole islamic countries and muslim socities through by the chaotic and meaningless manipulation of the people.</p>
<p>*What is Arab countries exactly want from the jewish people?</p>
<p>*why Arab counties having desire to remove jewish people from the land of the Israel?</p>
<p>*where the Arab people want to put jewish people rather than their own native land?</p>
<p>*why the hatred always from Arab counties to the toward other people?</p>
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		<title>By: Nicco</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/02/08/seven-jewish-children-a-play-for-gaza-by-caryl-churchill-at-the-royal-court/comment-page-6/#comment-337067</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 16:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=12684#comment-337067</guid>
		<description>What I find confusing about many of the comments criticizing the play is this:  most or all of the statements made in the play seem to me wholly sympathetic, ones I and anyone I know might make seeking to protect their children, even thought many of these statements have troubling implications.  For example, the ones about water seem eminently reasonable.  Who, living in a hot climate, would not want to have a lovely, refreshing swimming pool for their children to play in, despite the needs of certain of the neighbors?

Yet, the comments of those opposed to the play suggest that the statements the characters make in the play are outrageous and offensive, as though Israelis occupy some Olympus of moral superiority, and would never put the interests of their children above the needs of their less fortunate neighbors, and to suggest otherwise is the most heinous kind of offense.   For example, Zkharya suggests they could “fall into the category of ‘incitement to hatred’.”  Mr. Hoffman himself suggests the play “comes dangerously close to the ‘blood libel’”, which he then conflates with “the use of the ‘chosen people’ phrase to imply that Jews believe they are superior to non-Jews.”

This is confusing because of course significant numbers of most groups believe themselves superior to individuals who are not members of that group.  This is a problem with human nature, not with Jews or Gentiles.  “Blood libel”, by contrast, is a far more serious problem (although perhaps also a problem with human nature), constituting “false and sensationalized allegations that a person or group engages in human sacrifice, often of … children.” (quoting Wikipedia).  The play clearly is not a blood libel, except for those who find any criticism of Israel a blood libel, which unfortunately some do.

By now, Americans are use to encountering works that contain ferocious criticism of Americans, frequently appearing unfair and unreasonable.  While some of us react with rage, others try to find in the criticism ideas that help to improve our understanding and make the future better than the past.  That seems to me a more productive reaction to critical art.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find confusing about many of the comments criticizing the play is this:  most or all of the statements made in the play seem to me wholly sympathetic, ones I and anyone I know might make seeking to protect their children, even thought many of these statements have troubling implications.  For example, the ones about water seem eminently reasonable.  Who, living in a hot climate, would not want to have a lovely, refreshing swimming pool for their children to play in, despite the needs of certain of the neighbors?</p>
<p>Yet, the comments of those opposed to the play suggest that the statements the characters make in the play are outrageous and offensive, as though Israelis occupy some Olympus of moral superiority, and would never put the interests of their children above the needs of their less fortunate neighbors, and to suggest otherwise is the most heinous kind of offense.   For example, Zkharya suggests they could “fall into the category of ‘incitement to hatred’.”  Mr. Hoffman himself suggests the play “comes dangerously close to the ‘blood libel’”, which he then conflates with “the use of the ‘chosen people’ phrase to imply that Jews believe they are superior to non-Jews.”</p>
<p>This is confusing because of course significant numbers of most groups believe themselves superior to individuals who are not members of that group.  This is a problem with human nature, not with Jews or Gentiles.  “Blood libel”, by contrast, is a far more serious problem (although perhaps also a problem with human nature), constituting “false and sensationalized allegations that a person or group engages in human sacrifice, often of … children.” (quoting Wikipedia).  The play clearly is not a blood libel, except for those who find any criticism of Israel a blood libel, which unfortunately some do.</p>
<p>By now, Americans are use to encountering works that contain ferocious criticism of Americans, frequently appearing unfair and unreasonable.  While some of us react with rage, others try to find in the criticism ideas that help to improve our understanding and make the future better than the past.  That seems to me a more productive reaction to critical art.</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica Shylock</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/02/08/seven-jewish-children-a-play-for-gaza-by-caryl-churchill-at-the-royal-court/comment-page-6/#comment-334555</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica Shylock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 12:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=12684#comment-334555</guid>
		<description>&quot;“I think your community would be best served by a Jewish (or not) playwright creating an answer to the piece presenting the Jewish community’s perspective”

The whole problem is thinking that &quot;the Jewish community&quot; is a monolithic thing with only one common &quot;perspective.&quot; Christians, Britons, etc can be individuals, but the worst antisemites see The Jew and The Palestinian as masses without individuality. The Jew will always hate The Palestinian, thank God we gentiles aren&#039;t ever defined as such. If you think I&#039;m mad, ask yourself: when did the Guardian ever begin an article with &quot;British Gentile Community Offended by...&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;“I think your community would be best served by a Jewish (or not) playwright creating an answer to the piece presenting the Jewish community’s perspective”</p>
<p>The whole problem is thinking that &#8220;the Jewish community&#8221; is a monolithic thing with only one common &#8220;perspective.&#8221; Christians, Britons, etc can be individuals, but the worst antisemites see The Jew and The Palestinian as masses without individuality. The Jew will always hate The Palestinian, thank God we gentiles aren&#8217;t ever defined as such. If you think I&#8217;m mad, ask yourself: when did the Guardian ever begin an article with &#8220;British Gentile Community Offended by&#8230;&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: zkharya</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/02/08/seven-jewish-children-a-play-for-gaza-by-caryl-churchill-at-the-royal-court/comment-page-6/#comment-312440</link>
		<dc:creator>zkharya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=12684#comment-312440</guid>
		<description>&quot;I think your community would be best served by a Jewish (or not) playwright creating an answer to the piece presenting the Jewish community’s perspective&quot;

We shouldn&#039;t have to merely to respond to an aggressive, polemical misrepresentation.

It is not necessary to &quot;dramatize&quot; the views of Israeli Jews, or those genuinely sympathetic them. All that is necessary is to invite them to any genuinely open discussion or debate on the matter and let them represent, not ACT, themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think your community would be best served by a Jewish (or not) playwright creating an answer to the piece presenting the Jewish community’s perspective&#8221;</p>
<p>We shouldn&#8217;t have to merely to respond to an aggressive, polemical misrepresentation.</p>
<p>It is not necessary to &#8220;dramatize&#8221; the views of Israeli Jews, or those genuinely sympathetic them. All that is necessary is to invite them to any genuinely open discussion or debate on the matter and let them represent, not ACT, themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: David Shapiro</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/02/08/seven-jewish-children-a-play-for-gaza-by-caryl-churchill-at-the-royal-court/comment-page-6/#comment-309580</link>
		<dc:creator>David Shapiro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=12684#comment-309580</guid>
		<description>Jonathan&#039;s article...filled with Zionist brainwashing. Anything we say against Israel is considered anti-semitism..nonsense. Jewish faith yes, Zionism NO! And for your information..Semites are ALL people from south western Asia..includes Hebrews AND Arabs. So who is anti-semitic here?
I am proud to direct this play here in the USA asap...and also donate a lot of money to MAP !!!!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan&#8217;s article&#8230;filled with Zionist brainwashing. Anything we say against Israel is considered anti-semitism..nonsense. Jewish faith yes, Zionism NO! And for your information..Semites are ALL people from south western Asia..includes Hebrews AND Arabs. So who is anti-semitic here?<br />
I am proud to direct this play here in the USA asap&#8230;and also donate a lot of money to MAP !!!!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: The Baron</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/02/08/seven-jewish-children-a-play-for-gaza-by-caryl-churchill-at-the-royal-court/comment-page-6/#comment-307900</link>
		<dc:creator>The Baron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 06:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=12684#comment-307900</guid>
		<description>As a Yank I&#039;ve quite enjoyed this forum, esp. the remarks of the OP and Zkharya.  Was quite struck by this from Julia: &quot;And yes I do think Israel has to sit back and take it if the only alternative is killing and maiming thousands of innocent people.&quot;  Just two little questions, sweetie: is there any limit to the &quot;it&quot; that Israel has to sit back and take?  How many Jews have to die before Israel is granted the same right to self-defense that presumably all other nations enjoy.  I wonder if you&#039;re aware of what a depraved indifference to the value of Jewish life this sentiment reflects.  Because all Hamas has to do is use their own innocents as shields, and by this formulation Israel is helpless.  Also: what other nations do you require to so &quot;sit back and take it,&quot; as opposed to defending themselves against attackers who knew that through their aggression their own civilians were liable to become targets?  

One thing I didn&#039;t see mentioned above is the fact that the rockets the anti-Zionist left loves to make light of (which in itself shows a contempt for Jewish life, indeed deligitimizes the Jewish claim on a normal life in the world) are getting more powerful.  As I understand it they&#039;re falling rather close to Tel Aviv at this point.  Which highlights the depravity of conflating ability and intent.  Hamas *can&#039;t* at the moment kill a lot of Jews.  But does anyone really think they&#039;re sitting there hoping the rockets will only kill members of the IDF?  Are the rockets actually being &quot;aimed&quot; in any legitimate military fashion, or are they being pointed hopefully at as many Jews as can be hit, w/ no distinction between soldier and civilian?  To ask is to know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Yank I&#8217;ve quite enjoyed this forum, esp. the remarks of the OP and Zkharya.  Was quite struck by this from Julia: &#8220;And yes I do think Israel has to sit back and take it if the only alternative is killing and maiming thousands of innocent people.&#8221;  Just two little questions, sweetie: is there any limit to the &#8220;it&#8221; that Israel has to sit back and take?  How many Jews have to die before Israel is granted the same right to self-defense that presumably all other nations enjoy.  I wonder if you&#8217;re aware of what a depraved indifference to the value of Jewish life this sentiment reflects.  Because all Hamas has to do is use their own innocents as shields, and by this formulation Israel is helpless.  Also: what other nations do you require to so &#8220;sit back and take it,&#8221; as opposed to defending themselves against attackers who knew that through their aggression their own civilians were liable to become targets?  </p>
<p>One thing I didn&#8217;t see mentioned above is the fact that the rockets the anti-Zionist left loves to make light of (which in itself shows a contempt for Jewish life, indeed deligitimizes the Jewish claim on a normal life in the world) are getting more powerful.  As I understand it they&#8217;re falling rather close to Tel Aviv at this point.  Which highlights the depravity of conflating ability and intent.  Hamas *can&#8217;t* at the moment kill a lot of Jews.  But does anyone really think they&#8217;re sitting there hoping the rockets will only kill members of the IDF?  Are the rockets actually being &#8220;aimed&#8221; in any legitimate military fashion, or are they being pointed hopefully at as many Jews as can be hit, w/ no distinction between soldier and civilian?  To ask is to know.</p>
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		<title>By: Alllen Stein</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/02/08/seven-jewish-children-a-play-for-gaza-by-caryl-churchill-at-the-royal-court/comment-page-6/#comment-307052</link>
		<dc:creator>Alllen Stein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 03:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=12684#comment-307052</guid>
		<description>This play has become news in Taiwan and Japan now, too, where anti-Israel protests happened during the Gaza war, organized by leftwingers and Muslims living in Taipei and Tokyo. See? It&#039;s worldwide now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This play has become news in Taiwan and Japan now, too, where anti-Israel protests happened during the Gaza war, organized by leftwingers and Muslims living in Taipei and Tokyo. See? It&#8217;s worldwide now.</p>
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		<title>By: non</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/02/08/seven-jewish-children-a-play-for-gaza-by-caryl-churchill-at-the-royal-court/comment-page-6/#comment-306587</link>
		<dc:creator>non</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 12:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=12684#comment-306587</guid>
		<description>the most interesting thing is the way so many act as though Jewish history began with the holocaust and there never was a thousand years of european antisemitic oppression, and as though the state of israel was founded by holocaust survivors, rather than by Russian jews fleeing the antisemitism of russia.  Acknowledging that the world and jewish history did not begin with the holocaust, but rather that the holocaust was the result of a thousand years of antisemitism, and that the need for the state of israel was predicted before the holocaust and that the state was only acknowledged, not created, after the holocaust, would mean that they would have to own the current antisemitism.    Oh no the Europeans are impartial observers of the Jews.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the most interesting thing is the way so many act as though Jewish history began with the holocaust and there never was a thousand years of european antisemitic oppression, and as though the state of israel was founded by holocaust survivors, rather than by Russian jews fleeing the antisemitism of russia.  Acknowledging that the world and jewish history did not begin with the holocaust, but rather that the holocaust was the result of a thousand years of antisemitism, and that the need for the state of israel was predicted before the holocaust and that the state was only acknowledged, not created, after the holocaust, would mean that they would have to own the current antisemitism.    Oh no the Europeans are impartial observers of the Jews.</p>
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		<title>By: David Fine</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/02/08/seven-jewish-children-a-play-for-gaza-by-caryl-churchill-at-the-royal-court/comment-page-6/#comment-306318</link>
		<dc:creator>David Fine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 22:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=12684#comment-306318</guid>
		<description>For my take on this, click below:

http://www.readingpulitzer.com/2009/02/18/the-blood-libel-of-the-21st-century/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For my take on this, click below:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.readingpulitzer.com/2009/02/18/the-blood-libel-of-the-21st-century/" rel="nofollow">http://www.readingpulitzer.com/2009/02/18/the-blood-libel-of-the-21st-century/</a></p>
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		<title>By: knights-tale</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2009/02/08/seven-jewish-children-a-play-for-gaza-by-caryl-churchill-at-the-royal-court/comment-page-6/#comment-306309</link>
		<dc:creator>knights-tale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 22:05:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/?p=12684#comment-306309</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s be honest here.  None of us here is truly capable of taking a side in the Israeli-Gaza conflict and doing so with a clear conscience and with intellectual honesty.  It is far too thorny a topic and one that invites any loud-mouth with time on their hands to post a screed without the need the defend it.  After so much tit-for-tat the Middle East has become a farcical knot, each side pulling their end so righteously that they&#039;ll never undo it.

No one posting here will be able to sway anyone else, however heroic we all think we are in the blogosphere.

After reading Caryl Churchill&#039;s play, I can say that it&#039;s a piece of art born of outrage and a feeling of impotence.  It&#039;s a conversation-starter, intentionally meant to be important and polemical. And a little  tedious as a result, however well-structured.

Is it anti-Semitic? Quite possibly.  I&#039;m troubled that Churchill is ascribing passionate (inhumane) sentiments to seven characters clearly meant to be allegorical stand-ins for an entire nation or race. 

But is she arguing that constant fighting has certain misanthropic effects?

If she were not so clear about her sentiments, I would actually have argued literarily that Churchill could be showing what constant war and paranoia (justified or not) does to people, how it colors their perceptions.  

But, again, trying to represent an entire race in seven (barely discernible) characters is problematic no matter what the artistic intent or what comes out of the characters&#039; mouths.


Churchill sweeps a lot of people into a category that don&#039;t belong there.  There are undoubtedly Israeli Jews who&#039;ve said the things Churchill&#039;s characters say.  You could also turn the play around and have the same sentiments uttered by Hamas families.

And plenty of Israeli Jews probably agree with Churchill politically.  

Whether the play is anti-Semitic is really beside the point. That can be argued for years. What can&#039;t be argued (in my view) is that the play is lazy and somewhat childish.

It almost reads as a piece of juvenilia, if well-crafted juvenilia.  I almost don&#039;t care if the play is anti-Semitic.  I care that it&#039;s a bit cheap and exists to create a predictable emotional effect.

Art is the casualty in this particular debate.

PS.  As someone who has a college degree in Chaucer and Chaucer-era literature, let me caution folks here to be very careful when using the Prioress from &quot;The Canterbury Tales&quot; to back up ANY points.  We&#039;ll never know if the tale she tells is meant to be ironic or honest and both sides can be argued ad nauseum  Best to move on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s be honest here.  None of us here is truly capable of taking a side in the Israeli-Gaza conflict and doing so with a clear conscience and with intellectual honesty.  It is far too thorny a topic and one that invites any loud-mouth with time on their hands to post a screed without the need the defend it.  After so much tit-for-tat the Middle East has become a farcical knot, each side pulling their end so righteously that they&#8217;ll never undo it.</p>
<p>No one posting here will be able to sway anyone else, however heroic we all think we are in the blogosphere.</p>
<p>After reading Caryl Churchill&#8217;s play, I can say that it&#8217;s a piece of art born of outrage and a feeling of impotence.  It&#8217;s a conversation-starter, intentionally meant to be important and polemical. And a little  tedious as a result, however well-structured.</p>
<p>Is it anti-Semitic? Quite possibly.  I&#8217;m troubled that Churchill is ascribing passionate (inhumane) sentiments to seven characters clearly meant to be allegorical stand-ins for an entire nation or race. </p>
<p>But is she arguing that constant fighting has certain misanthropic effects?</p>
<p>If she were not so clear about her sentiments, I would actually have argued literarily that Churchill could be showing what constant war and paranoia (justified or not) does to people, how it colors their perceptions.  </p>
<p>But, again, trying to represent an entire race in seven (barely discernible) characters is problematic no matter what the artistic intent or what comes out of the characters&#8217; mouths.</p>
<p>Churchill sweeps a lot of people into a category that don&#8217;t belong there.  There are undoubtedly Israeli Jews who&#8217;ve said the things Churchill&#8217;s characters say.  You could also turn the play around and have the same sentiments uttered by Hamas families.</p>
<p>And plenty of Israeli Jews probably agree with Churchill politically.  </p>
<p>Whether the play is anti-Semitic is really beside the point. That can be argued for years. What can&#8217;t be argued (in my view) is that the play is lazy and somewhat childish.</p>
<p>It almost reads as a piece of juvenilia, if well-crafted juvenilia.  I almost don&#8217;t care if the play is anti-Semitic.  I care that it&#8217;s a bit cheap and exists to create a predictable emotional effect.</p>
<p>Art is the casualty in this particular debate.</p>
<p>PS.  As someone who has a college degree in Chaucer and Chaucer-era literature, let me caution folks here to be very careful when using the Prioress from &#8220;The Canterbury Tales&#8221; to back up ANY points.  We&#8217;ll never know if the tale she tells is meant to be ironic or honest and both sides can be argued ad nauseum  Best to move on.</p>
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