I was at wapping on January 24th 1987 and I vividly remember a Mounted Policeman ride His Horse up the pavement near a small group and start beating a Demonstrator over the head with His Baton – This sounds remarkably like SPP’s account – so mayby SPP & I were standing next to each other 22 Years ago !

If that is true then it is baffling for Me to understand how SPP can be joining Demonstrations for a group of Islamo-Fascists like HAMAS Who Smash the Strikes of Palestinian Trade Unionists , Torture and Murder Gays & Lesbians , Have a charter that calls for the killing of Jews & quotes from ” The Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion ” ?

SPP You are the one Who is now Grovelling to The Idiot-Left & Islamist Extremists – now thats really Sad !

It is shocking that SPP seems to Hate individual Police Officers so much that calls for ” 100 down ” – He isn’t speaking for Me as a Socialist & Trade Unionist . I try hard not Hate anybody – My Socialism is about Love & Fighting for Justice , so although I will never forget what happened during The Great Strike & Wapping , We have to move on . I am not saying that The Labour Movement will never come into Conflict with The Police ever again just that on this occasion The Police are playing a Progressive role in defending Diplomatic Staff & The Jewish Community from Violence and
Anti-Semitic Attacks .

SPP – History has moved on – have You ever considered that mayby You are now on the wrong side of History ?

The contagion never goes away it just mutates.

Around 100-120k people marched yesterday. We were briefed that the public order branch expected, and had been told the plan had been arranged for around 15-20k, despite it being all over the media and sites like Indymedia that around 100k were due to turn up. The estimates on numbers are usually somewhere between the Police ones (invariably considerably less than there actually are) and the organisers who seriously ramp up the turn out. On this occasion however, the front of the march reached the embassy as the back had not long left Hyde Park, a distance of just under 1.5 miles, and it was packed, literally building line to building line across 4 lanes of road. We were told (at around 3pm) the official Police estimate was 20-25k, which was complete and utter bollocks…

I thought this was interesting for two reasons. First, it confirms the confirms the claims of the organisers that this was an absolutely massive demonstration of public outrage over Israel’s actions. And second, it suggests that poor police planning was at least partly to blame for the violence that ensued outside the Israeli embassy.

Now, one can certainly argue that the people responsible for the violence are exclusively to blame, but this is simplistic. Effective crowd control is about prevention, and in that respect the police clearly failed. What you had here was a large passionate demonstration, and an obvious hotspot – the Israeli embassy.

I wasn’t on the demo, but I was in continual phone contact with a friend of mine (a disabled middle aged lady attending her first ever demo) who had, to all intents and purposes, been imprisoned by the police outside the embassy. Despite her gender, age and disability, the police refused point blank to allow her to leave, and she was imprisoned for two to three hours in the biting cold. Because of the nature of her disability, I was pretty concerned for her physical wellbeing.

When her companion (like her, a middle aged demo newbie), tried to persuade the police to release her, he was abused by police officers who then twisted his arm behind his back and threatened to arrest him.

Needless to say, my friend’s experience of the policing outside the embassy was not exactly positive. What particularly irked her was that before she was finally released, her a police surveillance unit videoed her and another officer took her personal details, telling her that if she attended another demonstration, she would be arrested. In her view, this amounted to intimidation. According to her, there were many, many quite innocent protesters who were treated in the same manner.

Neither of my friends could remotely be described as violent extremists or troublemakers in any sense. They’re not even really ‘political’ and I was somewhat surprised that they demonstrated – Israel’s war seems to have moved a whole bunch of ‘normal’ British people out of apathy.

As I said, I was not on the demo, so I accept that I am only reporting what I was told. Over the years, I have been on several demonstrations which were well policed, and several others (particulary during the miners’ strike and Wapping) where it was clear that the police were intent on escalating conflict, not avoiding it.

I don’t find this blog that right wing. Its defintely not a Tory one. I would say that this is more of a ’sensible left’ site. I also wouldn’t say that this site had an attitude of unquestioning support for Israel either. I’ve seen sensible criticism of Israel ie the issue of Settlements recently for example. I come here as I got tired of the racist ranting about Israel and the blind support for clerical fascists that is standard fare on other left sites. If you want to see stomach churning vile loons then Indymedia is your place for that.

I’ve also never seen any overt celebrating of the deaths of civilians in the Gaza conflict either. Posters on here have lamented the deaths of innocent civilians as is proper but have rightly in my view laid the blame for these deaths on the true villain in this conflict which has been Hamas. If people step away from their ideological positions and think about the situation you can plainly see that this was not a war that Israel wanted. Gaza could have been a prosperous statelet and the main reason it isn’t is because of Hamas.

Southpaw punch said:”But the saddest comment has to be that from Ian Sternberg. I was also a “Trade Union Veteran of The Print Workers Demonstrations at Wapping in the 1980’s” (not a print worker).

It sounds like Sternberg and I had similar experiences in that I had a pig ride his horse, at a charge, directly at us (a small, mixed party, including several older women) and with a real possibility of serious injury to us.

I also was at Wapping not as a picket but as a photographer and I saw a lot of what you did. My view of the police was clouded over what I saw that day so I know what you are talking about.

Southpaw punch said:”How Sternberg can go from witnessing, or even receiving, the same to his grovelling to his cops is very sad to behold.

However like me Mr Sternberg, may also have seen what the clerical fascists and their idiot fellow travellers on the left are up to and see that there is a need for them to be confronted physically when necessary. I tell you what I feel is very sad to behold, is that so many people of the left feel that it is acceptable to walk in line with, and excuse swaztika carrying fascists on the streets of London and other places in Britain. I never thought I’d ever see the day when allegedly thinking socialists lined up with fascists but this is what has happened. That is what is disgusting.

Fash cannot be negotiated with or pacified they eventually need to be physically confronted and the Police in a democratic society should be the ones to do this. If they will not then that is another matter IYSWIM.

Southpaw punch said:”Because the words every communist, or trade union militant, wants to hear is ‘1, no 10, no 100… officers down.’

Only in fantasy land. When the shit hits the fan and the fash are marching who’s going to stand up to them? Who is going to protect people from the fash?

For personal reasons and experience i’ve not always been on the side of the police (and I’ve had good reason not to like them) but when they are facing violent fascists then the police have in these situations my backing.

Fash are always more dangerous than police in a democratic society.

http://nicedeb.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/disgraceful-british-police-run-away-from-muslim-thug-protesters/

Nice editing there

Most of the comments above are to be expected from the denizens of a right-wing blog like this and the only thing vile here is this site and it’s recent mode of being a propaganda arm of the killers in the Gaza massacres.

But the saddest comment has to be that from Ian Sternberg. I was also a “Trade Union Veteran of The Print Workers Demonstrations at Wapping in the 1980’s” (not a print worker).

It sounds like Sternberg and I had similar experiences in that I had a pig ride his horse, at a charge, directly at us (a small, mixed party, including several older women) and with a real possibility of serious injury to us.

How Sternberg can go from witnessing, or even receiving, the same to his grovelling to his cops is very sad to behold.

Because the words every communist, or trade union militant, wants to hear is ‘1, no 10, no 100… officers down.’