Comments on: Pretty Pathetic Things

By: Gsirrah

Gsirrah — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:58:42 +0000

Chas, how can you seriously be agreeing with the racism of WB?

It’s not anti-Arab to notice the behaviour of Paelstinians. They did say Jenin was a massacre when it wasn’t, they have called this recent operation a disaster and it hasn’t been. The Corriere della Sera journo who got in and did the pice somewhat quoted earlier in this thread did observe that casualties and fatalities were being overblown. It’s not racism to observe this nasty habit the Palestinians have gotten into - it’s truthful, and I think they’re capable of getting it together to drop this habit of laying it on thick and just getting on with being decent citizens. [My emphasis]

Doesn't the generalising about "the Palestinians" and the over-use of "they" worry you? To observe the behaviour of certain Palestinians and, if relevant, condemn it: not at all racist. To generalise about all Palestinians and suggest that they are dishonest and they have nasty habits that they need to be forced out of: racist.

By: Sarah

Sarah — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 11:15:45 +0000

Sorry Israelinurse – I clearly hadn’t read your earlier (1.56am) comment properly!

By: Israelinurse

Israelinurse — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:47:04 +0000

Sarah – I think that is precisely the issue and that the BBC know it well. If you read between the lines of their various statements on the subject it is clear that they have excellent comprehension of the tangled web that is fund raising for Palestinian causes.
Funding terror is illegal in the UK. Hamas is defined as a terrorist organisation and it is therefore illegal to provide it with funds. The last thing the BBC needs is for Panorama to show how money secured in an appeal backed by the BBC got into Hamas coffers.
Because of the nature of things on the ground, many charities work by using intermediary organisations in Gaza and the WB. Some (not all) of these organisations are supporters of Hamas.
It is not unlikely that I would donate money to legit British charity A, which would pass that money on to Palestinian charity on the ground B, which would pass that money on to Hamas. It has been working this way for years now.
Not without reason have Hamas managed to build up an arsenal whilst keeping their people in abject poverty.
How vigilant are British charities about ensuring that funds do not reach Hamas? Well that’s a tricky question. Not vigilant enough in my eyes.
To what extent are organisations like UNRWA and the Red Cross susceptible to Hamas influence on the ground? Very much so. Most of their workers are locals and as we have seen recently Hamas has no qualms about conducting highway robbery on lorries full of aid.
Certainly one wants to help those who have suffered so much, but one does not want to help Hamas re-arm : that would only prolong their suffering.

By: Mark

Mark — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:36:59 +0000

What do fellow HPers make of this.

I complained about the following post to the BBC (its at 9.25am yesterday on an item in which Mark Thompson explains the Beeb’s decision:

“Get off the BBC’s back, everybody. The schedule is so full of holocaust archive broadcasts (announced on the BBC main page today) that there simply isn’t enough room between them for the Gaza appeal.”

Apparently they think its fine and intend to leave it up!

By: Sarah

Sarah — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:07:51 +0000

I’m rather shocked by some of the responses on this thread to the BBC’s decision not to broadcast the Gaza appeal. (For the record I thought it was an odd decision because the BBC always seems somewhat anti-Israel.) I would have thought that whatever one’s views of the rights and wrongs of the conflict one could still want to help those who have suffered so much – even if you thought that Hamas was ultimately largely to blame for the deaths. If people’s objections were to do with worry that the money wouldn’t get through to those who need it I could understand that – but that doesn’t seem to be the issue.

By: Chas Newkey-Burden

Chas Newkey-Burden — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 07:18:26 +0000

WB – “It’s not anti-Arab to notice the behaviour of Palestinians.”

I agree and would add that if anything it is racist to NOT note it. When the Hamas-apologists overlook/excuse such behaviour they seem to be saying “But they’re Arabs, they know no better”.

By: dave batista

dave batista — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 02:03:49 +0000

Oh god, did someone just compare Dresden and Hiroshima and their role in ending World War 2 (a conflict that killed perhaps SIXTY MILLION PEOPLE) with this Gaza thing?

A sense of perspective. Get one.

By: WB

WB — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 01:57:14 +0000

Stringerbell, suck your own cock. It’s not anti-Arab to notice the behaviour of Paelstinians. They did say Jenin was a massacre when it wasn’t, they have called this recent operation a disaster and it hasn’t been. The Corriere della Sera journo who got in and did the pice somewhat quoted earlier in this thread did observe that casualties and fatalities were being overblown. It’s not racism to observe this nasty habit the Palestinians have gotten into – it’s truthful, and I think they’re capable of getting it together to drop this habit of laying it on thick and just getting on with being decent citizens. Here’s a link for you – 600 dead, from the Italian boy (w translation).

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=457_1232627391

This hasn’t been a PR disaster for Israel – it has been for the Gazans though – they didn’t get their lies out early enough so the narrative is very very sceptical of their purposes in starting this whole thing by launching their idiot rockets day in and day out.

You think you care about the Gazans cos you’re appalled we all don’t want to give money to them. I think Gaza is Palermo in 1950, but without the class! It’s a mafia cesspool and it’s not part of my philosophy to give any money to the mafia. But you’re okay with it?

By: Israelinurse

Israelinurse — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 01:56:20 +0000

Stringerbell – I see from the extremely emotional nature of your posts that you have completely bought into the ‘Palestinians as the world’s most downtrodden victims’ thing.
It’s hardly surprising, given the fact that the information you receive is filtered and manipulated to ensure precisely that reaction.
However, what several people on this blog with enough fact-based knowledge of the ME are trying to point out to you and others is that the actual reality on the ground is not quite so clear-cut or simple.
Yes, the ordinary Palestinian people of Gaza have suffered in the last 4 weeks. Yes, they need help. The trouble is that it is very difficult to ensure that the aid provided will actually reach the people who need it. What has happened in the past is that the aid has been used to buy weapons to kill and maim other people.
If the Gazans were so poor and starving even before operation cast Lead, where exactly do you think the money to buy missiles came from?
Now I presume you do not approve of the killing and maiming of other people, even if they are Israeli. The dilemma therefore is how to help the people of Gaza without allowing Hamas to get its hands on more weapons which would only prolong and intensify the cycle of violence and ordinary people’s suffering.
Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of the ME can see that the Palestinian people have been ill served by their leaders for a very long time now. A recent survey showed that if they had accepted and implemented the Oslo agreement their per capita income would by now have doubled.
Unfortunately for all concerned, they chose violence instead.
All people, be it on a personal or national level, have to take responsibility for their choices. Cultivating the victim status of Palestinians will not encourage them to be responsible for their choices – it will only deepen their poverty. Tragically for them, this victim status is being encouraged and perpetuated by their leaders, other nations and political movements with less than charitable agendas, the western media and liberal woolly do-gooders in need of a cause celebre.
It is time to stop being emotional about the I/P conflict and start asking some serious questions which will enable progress to be made. Unfortunately the answers are not easy or always pleasant and it requires the ability to stop thinking in simplistic, trite terms of right and wrong, good and bad. Can you do that?

By: Mark

Mark — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 00:48:22 +0000

Benjamin

You will find part at least of the answer to your question in my 5.34 post.

Now if you like, you can defend Hamas against my charge that its claims of victory legitimise carnage.

PS Do you mean “volition” rather than “fruition”. I only ask becasue I’d hate it if your chums in the “Boycott Israel” brigade thought you were issuing a subliminal message on behalf of Israeli citrus.