Harry's Place

It’s too late for Comrade Newman’s generation obviously but isn’t this sort of thing evidence to support a case for economics being a compulsory subject at school?

No, it’s evidence that people should not give opinions on matters about which they know sod all. If everyone followed this rule, the rubbish on talk back radio would be reduced by 98%. It would also severely cull blog posts and comments. In fact, it’s an ultra Green policy for cutting back on waste generally, and would have the side effect of creating serious unemployment among newspaper columnists.

I rather wish Galloway, the SWP, Respect and associated Trot groupuscules would actually take over Woollies. It would keep them busy and can you imagine the sort of business they’d run? Clearly, Pick’n'Mix would be out for a start–the very definition of an ideologically unsound confectionery mix. They could of course replace it with an All Red (or maybe even) All Red and Brown or All Hezbollah) with people’s portions pre-weighed.

The problem is the prospect for the poor old staff. Wouldn’t want to wish that lot as bosses (sorry, fellow comrades of the collective ) on anyone. They could do a roaring trade on locks for changing, though.

amen, brother

If George will bring back public loos, I will vote for him.

I’m tired of getting my shoes muddy while peeing in the bushes in public gardens.

A friend of mine, while on a university organised trip to the Soviet Union, went shopping at Moscow’s ‘flagship’ GUMM department store.

She said the staff were surly, when they weren’t drunk, that the place was in a shambles and that the products were mostly of an incredibly low and dubious quality.

Perhaps Galloway draws inspiration from that example.

I quite liked having a place that sold baby clothes and lightbulbs – and that wasn’t an out of town tescos.

and the fact that it was losing approx £1,000 for every ten minutes it traded

You might think the prospect of the idea of purchasing an organisation said to be losing £420,000 every day it opens its doors

Are they working 70 hour days?

Isn’t this sort of thing evidence to support a case for arithmetic being a compulsory subject at school?

The idea of Galloway running Woollies (renamed The Glorious Islamotrot Revolutionary Enterprise) fills me with dread. The man couldn’t run a whelk stall unless it was part funded by Tehran.

I am an impossiblist, I like being a utopian socialist. I want a world without states and without poverty and oppression.
When I read the woolies post I laughed out loud, what a ludicrous load of crap!
I despair of these fake socialists, they play at the politics, they make poses for the cameras knowing that none of what they say or do matters, they denounce each other and launch holy fatwas against each other safe in the knowledge that nobody takes them seriously.

Two posts from Marcus in two days, and neither of them involve Israel or angst about any international event. I’m in heaven.

the government could turn it into a people’s Woolies, employing local people, buying from local producers and ensuring it provided the services and goods local people on low incomes need.

Woolies doesn’t have much of fresh food section, you knob (and, no, I don’t include limp sandwiches in this). In fact, what it’s best at is stationary and basic household items. The city centre stores were loosing money hand-over-fist, as they – in keeping with the general over-spend attitude to ape Dod’s desired lifestyle – tried to be something they weren’t. The stores elsewhere, including principle towns of rural areas (e.g. population, 5,000) were lifelines and should still have a future.

Why is it that self-styled socialist revolutionaries know naff all about this?

Parhaps after the Galloway Woolworths merger all the accounts go missing.

“Are they working 70 hour days?

Isn’t this sort of thing evidence to support a case for arithmetic being a compulsory subject at school?”

Whoops, I thought it was £10,000, not £1,000.

Corrected now. Blame my useless eye surgeon not the Scottish education system…

This is of the same order as David ‘Messiah’ Shayler’s plea that “every government should print their own money.” A complete inability to understand what money and debt are, coupled with absurd nationalization fanstasies that lead to this sort of thing.

Readers of Asian Voice, its sister paper East and the News on Sunday know all about how good Galloway and his far-left chums are at running commercial concerns.

I’m not sure what I’d be more concerned about, if George was involved.
The tills or the till girls.

He might do some pick ‘n mix, Tim.

What a great idea. Presumably George has taken into account that even while it makes huge losses

a) It sells cheap products. Local suppliers can’t meet these prices and so cannot supply

b) Its products are tailored towards its customers who might want a cheap Dr Who DVD rather than organically grown products

So George would presumably increase prices, change the products on sale and lose all its old customers. It would need to rebrand itself to attract new ones to take their place.

Unfortunately the name Waitrose has already been taken.

Three cheers for the people’s champion.

Whoops, I thought it was £10,000, not £1,000.

If it ever did become the people’s Woolies you’d be a shoe-in for head of accounts, Marcus.

The entire retail sector, (Tescos, M&S, along with Electricity, Gas, Water) the lot, needs to be nationalised

Hahahahahaha

Alex “He might do some pick’n'mix”

Best comment ever.

The thing about being a socialist dreamer is that you never have to put any of your dreams into reality; annoying factors like getting them to work or managing them never have to be considered. What a great job!

I’d recommend, slightly tangentially, a Radio 4 documentary which was broadcast on Thursday, about the Partisan coffee house, a socialist meeting place in 1950s London where the New Left met and which wanted to encourage patrons to sit and talk politics endlessly, unlike other coffee bars which they claimed only wanted you to drink your coffee and vacate the premises asap. Needless to say it went bust. It’s still available on the BBC iPlayer.

Or consider the attempt to create a new Sunday newspaper from a left perspective, the subject of a hilarious episode of the documentary series Lefties. it’s all up on YouTube and worth an hour of anyone’s time. Needless to say, it went bust.

Here’s a link to the BBC site:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/lefties3.shtml

This would all be harmlessly funny, except that real people’s pension funds were used to fund the newspaper, which squandered them in an orgy of posturing, attitudinising and all-round moronocy. Who funded the Partisan I’ve no idea. But whoever did, their investment vanished down the drain.

Socialists who can run businesses are vanishingly rare – perhaps because they think turning a profit is reprehensible. Which is fine and all, until other people’s money runs out

hasan,
to be fair to Galloway its doubtful that “East” was ever intended to be commercial, rather a propaganda sheet corruptly funded from Pakistan

http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/archives/archives1998/98june28.html

“Documents show that the Pakistan government agreed an initial budget for the weekly newspaper of £547,000. According to a memorandum dated Jan 2, 1996 the Pakistan government proposed to “covertly sponsor” the publication, with money allocated to “the Secret Fund of the High Commissioner for Pakistan in the UK as a special grant for the project”. ”

When the Bhutto Government fell it all went pear shaped,but not before George had written some hilarious begging letters.

On May 8, 1997 Mr Galloway wrote to Mr Sharif talking of Labour’s “landslide victory”. The preamble over, he got to the point: “Alas I must draw your attention to a critical issue which risks gravely embarrassing Pakistan and Labour just on the threshold of the new era. As you will see from the file I undertook to keep “The East” going until the General Election to avoid the embarrassment of the paper’s collapse. The Government of Pakistan – in the shape of the then Foreign Secretary – promised to pay the costs for February, March and April – totalling £150,000. None of these instalments arrived.

“Consequently I now face creditors to the tune of £141,000. Now that Parliament is back, they are literally coming through my door at Westminster demanding money.

http://www.hvk.org/articles/0403/242.html

Of course, auditors found large amounts of cash could not be found,and Asian Voice Ltd never filed accounts.

sorry – not YouTube. Here:

http://www.veoh.com/channels/lefties

enjoy all three – what a treat!

Well, before anyone gets too sneery about workers’ co-ops in the high street, let’s remember Waitrose is part of what is effectively a workers’ co-operative (the John Lewis Partnership).

Maybe a slimmed down chain, owned by the workers wouldn’t be a bad idea.

I think this topic needs to be viewed in the context of billions of pounds being thrown at bonus-happy bankers.

Have they learnt nothing at all from the lessons of history, and in particular 70 odd years of the Soviet Union and its empire?????

I agree with field. Workers’ cooperatives can succeed on a relatively small scale and offer a lot of advantages over traditionally-owned and run businesses. However the idea of a state-owned retail chain seems a non-starter.

KMcC said”Or consider the attempt to create a new Sunday newspaper from a left perspective, the subject of a hilarious episode of the documentary series Lefties. it’s all up on YouTube and worth an hour of anyone’s time. Needless to say, it went bust.”

Many moons ago I worked as a photographer for NoS and they still owe me £100.

Sorry? A 1000 pounds every ten minutes is 6000 quid every hour isn’t it? Which would be 144,000 every day assuming they trade for 24 hours? Or 72,000 if they only do so for 12 hours. I don’t see where the 42,000 comes from.

I must have done something wrong. Can we have an explanation of the figures?

And while I agree Galloway is bonkers and his idea is worse, if we calculated how much the Olympics were losing per hour, or the Dome or the NHS Spine or any IT programme the Government is involved in, I am sure that Woolies would look a bargain.

Fair point, So Much. It would require a seven hour day for £42,000. Let’s forget opening hours: as we all know, any business will require cleaners and shelf-stackers working after the doors close.

Call yourself working-class, Marcus? The name itself should be a giveaway.

They really are a bunch of total knob-ends aren’t they? Utter numbnuts.

I suppose I should compose myself, but what really gets me is a sense of frustration for them themselves. I mean, to think that these people think they are representing a great historic movement, an entire ideology, a vast class interest, no less. And supposedly representing this, all they can do is hang around on ill-read blogs sounding off about stuff which they clearly have no clue about. I mean, the fucker in the comment in Marcus’ piece manages to place Woolies under entirely the wrong insolvency regime, quite apart from completely misunderstanding the purposes of administration. Do they know nothing of economics, the law, even – for the love of God – common sense?! Why do you think it’s on sale for a quid you losers?!

Now, please, it’s just embarassing. If you’re going to go to the trouble of being opinionated, and controversially opinionated at that, the very least you can do is ensure that you have some understanding of the way the world currently works beyond the fact that you have some vague feeling that it’s all corrupt and all the fat cats are, like, on the take, yeah? This will avoid embarassed silences on the part of one’s interlocutors and frustrated shrieks like this one. Must – really must – try harder.

I very much like Waitrose, by the way. It’s a worker co-operative and the most resolutely snobbish and middle class of all the supermarkets, designed to provide all the stuff that appears in a metropolitan trendy’s wet dream. Have your cake and eat it or what? Remember, nothing’s too good for the workers, comrades.

Woolworths has failed to find the right product lines. Its shelves are a chaos of jumble. There appears to be no sensible logic behind the selection of products. It’s not surprising Woolies is for sale for few pennies. It’s only nostalgia that’s kept Woolies going so long.
It was the first of the cheap and cheerful shops. Now there’s an ‘Everything for a Pound’ on every High Street. But even so I believe Woolworths is not beyond redemption. It might take a near miracle. But somebody like Branson might be able to make a go of it.

Let’s also not forget that the Nationwide and Co-op Bank – both non-capitalist organisations – have both emerged from the current financial crisis very well.

Field – what on earth are you talking about?

Explain how a building society and a bank are not capitalist organisations.

Its wasn’t nostalgia that kept woolies going, it was the property portfolio. Everybody knew the business was hopeless, but as long as it could be kept going without losing too much, eventually it was assumed the very appealing properties would attract a buyout by a developer who would break it up.

Unfortunately the operating losses kept getting worse and now the value of the property portfolio is on the slide. So they missed their chance. But neither management nor shareholders ever thought the business was going anywhere, which is why nothing was invested in it.

In the end it still going to be bought by a developer (or a private equity group acting like one) and broken up, just after going into administration.

Galloways latest witterings on woolies.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/comment/columnists/lifestyle-columnists/george-galloway/2008/12/08/knit-together-plan-to-keep-woolies-going-86908-20954483/

The entire retail sector, (Tescos, M&S, along with Electricity, Gas, Water) the lot, needs to be nationalised

Yes, because retail businesses are inherently suited to a centrally planned economy, aren’t they?

They are not seeking to maximise surplus. They are seeking to benefit their members. Two entirely different concepts.

That’s why these institutions have survived well – though clearly you don’t like that observable fact.

clearly you don’t like that observable fact

amazing powers you have there, to divine my thoughts.

I’m delighted that those organisations are prospering. But to call a bank of all things a non-capitalist enterprise is just the silliest thing I’ve ever heard. It’s a bank: it aggregates savings to form new capital, which it then lends or invests to make profits.

So a capitalist institution like a bank that doesn’t make as much profit as others can be, under your formulation, redesignated a non-capitalist institution. Which means that up is down, so long as you say it is.

George Galloway has suggested that the Government buy Woolworths and turn it into 680 new co-ops. Well, as a strong supporter of co-operatives, I think that something like this would be very good for the Co-op (there is always a Tesco or an Asda nearby, for those who cannot afford it; there is bother over the Co-operative Party’s continued use of Co-op premises) and the John Lewis Partnership (which, as much as anything else, includes Waitrose).

K McC –

I think if you really liked the fact you’d be celebrating it, rather than trying to mislead us into believing that true building societies or co-operatives behave like capitalist companies.

Under capitalism there is tremendous pressure on companies to simply maximise profit, often on a very short term basis.

That pressure is not there in the co-operative or the building society where the linkage is far more organic between individuals and the organisation.

I am celebrating it – some peasants are bringing me a glass of fizzy wine and then I’m going to flog them for being poor and looking at me

then I’m going to burn their divi cards

Watch out – the peasants are revolting.

They’re also quite likely to rebel.

Steve M,

can you pwn Marcus some more?

Best thing about this post. Glad I clicked on the link.

Mr Danger, Thanks for that. I should have said that ‘nostalgia kept some of the customer base (such as it was), rather than any sensible business plan on Woolies part. The poilcy of pile it high and sell it cheap; everything from garden spades, to cds, to toys, to clothes, to snack foods, to kitchenware, to electronics, to greeting cards, to musical instruments, to books, to every sort of bric-a-brac one can imagine was the height of folly. How could they hope to survive with such a crazy range of products? The very idea was ridiculous.

It was impossible for Woolies, with the amount of floor space needed to display everything including the kitchen sink to compete with the twin threats of the catalogue shops who have virtually no display area and the Everything for a Pound shops who have taken over the pile it high flog it cheap niche.
Wooliesaurus was unable or unwilling to adapt.

then I’m going to burn their divi cards

I have the modern-day equivalent of the Divi card – it’s the Co-Operative Membership card now. Got a cheque for a whole £7 last week.

Has Dave Dudley got a new job as George Galloway’s speechwriter?