The difference is between those who want a political solution and those who want victory, those who criticise their own side and those who consider their own side beyond criticism.

And democratically elected Israeli governments have consistently thrown the full support of the State behind the settlers. Every time the settlers set up an outpost on private Palestinian land, the State rushes to provide it with electric power, clean water, phone lines and, most important of all, military protection. In fact, the Sassoon report found that even the trailers for the outposts were provided by the State.

Yes, all this is true. Unlike you, I don’t say it triumphantly, I say this in deep anguish. For 35 years all Israeli governments either collaborated with settlers or closed their eyes to deliberate illegality. This is outrageous and it is absolutely right to condemn a long line of Israeli politicians for this state of affairs.

But all this begs the question, why is it that most of Israeli public is in favour of a two-state solution and heartedly dislikes the settlers (or at least their substantive lunatic fringes), while voting for governments which are at best disfunctional, at worst deceitful. I know what is your answer, but then you want to see Israel dismantled, so, frankly, it is difficult to take your views at face value. My own answer is to ask another question (a very Jewish trait): why is it that most of Palestinian public is in favour of a two-state solution and heartedly dislikes ther own lunatic fringes, while voting for governments which are at best disfunctional, at worst deceitful?

There are some here, like you, who indict Israelis but not Palestinians. Others, needless to say, do it the other way around. I indict neither. I see it as a frankly unexceptional behaviour of human beings in a conflict situation. I don’t believe that Israelis or Palestinians are somehow flawed, tainted by their ethnicity or history or culture. I do believe that they are pray to the full range of human emotions, not all nice, which occur in a bitter, existential conflict: fear, distrust, humiliation, self-pity, self righteousness, hate, disorientation… The challenge is not to “bust” this or that side or to score meaningless points but to bring the two sides together.

“Many graduate of a yeshiva are unable to think critically in that way.”
No doubt. According to the CBI many 2:1 graduates are unable to produce a comprehensible memo.

However, as chorister pointed out, this is something of a distraction and seeing as I’m not, have never been and have no desire to become Charedi I’m not sure how we got on to it.

The point is about some violent yobbos, who may or may not have a legitimate property grievance, rioting and using racist slogans. Further, it is about the legitimacy of using this to tar 100,000s (or more if we’re dealing with all National Religious) of decent people in order to make it easier to ethnically cleanse them for a wholly chimerical peace.

What work skills does a degree in History give you? How about English Literature? PPE anyone? Honours in Greats?

That reminds me of the joke going around when I was an undergraduate. What did the Arts Grad say to the Science Grad?

“Would you like fries with that?”

But G, I didnot say anything about the logic and reasoning taught in the humanities. What I wrote was that the logic and reasoning used in the Talmud rested on a set of logic that is inconsistant with the Poperian logic of the modern world. As one example, it assumes that “Halacha me’Moshe Me’Sinai” is a conclusive argument. Or that memetic tradition is assumed to be correct, and logice and rational should be contorted to fitthe mimetic tradition.

Logic in the modern sense requires critical analysis of a given body of knowledge and the readiness to reject it.

Many graduate of a yeshiva are unable to think critically in that way.

Hands up ayone who thinks that is likely!

I know of Rabbi Froman, and indeed, he is already trying to build peaceful co-existence with the Palestinian population, a far cry from the violent rioters of Hebron.

Well just ask Rabbi Froman from Tekoa, who has said many many times that if Tekoa is handed to the Palestinians he would rather stay there, than move to Israel. He is not alone in his views.

Not really the strategy of someone who is confident in his own convictions and can argue a case on its own merits.