Harry's Place

Gene

You have touching tendency to take every word from Obama’s mouth at face value, like great tablets of stone from The One.

So Gene, what do suggest for South America? Back to the glory days of the Washington Consensus?

I realise how much you hate Chavez, but I still have tremendous difficulty in getting you to articulate any alternative proposals or philosophy.

Do you have any?

It seems to me, whether one likes or dislikes Chavez, he has changed Venezuela irrevocably. Unless you are a supporter of coups, like 2002, which thew the democratically achieved constitution and parliament in the bin, you cannot fail to accept this.

Gene and the right has no chance of entirely destroying today’s Venezuela by democratic means; the only way that can be done is by Chavez himself.

authoritarian government

Well, it certainly can be, as authoritarianism can sprout in many environments. On the other hand, Venezuela has gone through many more elections than the US in past ten years; the president was subject to a recall vote (unheard of in the US); the parliament is elected under proportional representation; changes to the constitution are subject to a national vote; the current constitution was created by a democratic process, and is widely recognised as one of the most progressive in the world (and was temporarily ditched by short-lived US sponsored dictatorship of 2002).

What Obama says may hold some truth; however, anyone with even a modicum of knowledge of US meddling in South America over the decades will surely respond with a wry smile.

Yes – Lets have Ahmedi-Nejad and Chavez hoisted by their petards.

Funny how you never mentioned anything about Chavez leading a coup (and another one done on his behalf) Benjibot. I guess you were to busy having a wry smile at how clever you are.

Forget socialism and bolivarianism. What happened was Chavez won oil lotto, spent the loot like a drunken sailer, and now the country is going to go bust. Its deja vu all over again. He left the country more dependent on oil and state enterprises (which are propped up with oil money) than when he started. Or do you think the profits from cement plan joint ventures with Iran are actually going to make money and offset collapsing oil revenues?

Its difficult to know the real financial picture there, since Chavez has made the country’s accounts so opaque. But estimates of Venezuela’s “break even” oil price go from $90 to $120 a barrel, far above the $60 Chavez is claiming. The country, which was already suffering from economic dislocations from Chavez’s war on ’speculators’, is going to see much worse.

But Benji’s OK in his overseas tax haven, from where it will all look like a tempest in a teapot old chap.

Everything has gone like clockwork so far.

don’t worry, soon obama will be portrayed as a traitor to the underclass, a fake who looks like the poor and the oppressed (because he is black) but is really a privileged, a wolf on lamb skin (I don’t know if this expression exists in english), unlike chavez who really has indian origins, who really is for the poor and the oppressed. but the fact is that, if there is a place where anti-americanism has roots in real resentment is south america. that is a very dark side of US foreign policy.

the evolution of the left in south america is fascinating, with the rise of populist leaders, because that happens for a reason, it’s the same reason why berlusconi keeps getting elected in Italy, but I hardly find any good analysis of this phenomenon, not that I look too much, but almost everything is either very biased in one sense or another or fails to grasp the reality of south america. the only one that I found good enough was by giovanni sartori in an article about populism, but he was talking about italy (not only about berlusconi).

More than just Gene, Chavez actually wanted Obama to win:

Wires

November 03, 2008 12:00am

VENEZUELAN President Hugo Chavez has backed Barack Obama in this week’s US presidential election and hopes he will he end the US trade embargo on Cuba.

“We don’t ask him to be a revolutionary, we don’t ask him to be a socialist, only that, as a black man about to become president of the United States, he take his place in history,” Chavez said in a televised speech from southeastern Barinas state.

“I hope the next (US) government will end that savage embargo and aggression against Cuba. That will be the test,” said Chavez, a virulently anti-American, self-described “political son” of former Cuban leader Fidel Castro.

The US has had strict sanctions against Cuba for 46 years.

During his election campaign, Democrat Obama, the first African-American candidate in the race for the White House, has stated his intention of talking to US foes such as Iran and North Korea and lifting some US restrictions against Cuba.

Calling it “no small matter” that an African-American should reach the White House, Chavez called on the US to withdraw its troops from Iraq and stop threatening Iran and Venezuela.

It seems to me, whether one likes or dislikes Chavez, he has changed Venezuela irrevocably. Unless you are a supporter of coups, like 2002, which thew the democratically achieved constitution and parliament in the bin, you cannot fail to accept this.

And the non-sequitur award of the year goes to… BENJI!!!!!

*DEAFENING APPLAUSE*

a recall vote (unheard of in the US)

How did Arnold Schwarzenegger become Governor of California?

a recall vote (unheard of in the US)

I am referring of course to the US presidency.

Richard Seymour’s contribution:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JNlxgs6qm2M/SRxCflHw5hI/AAAAAAAACN0/3UrHnGaUZ7g/s1600-h/Bush-Obama+s.jpg

Reports of the death of “Anti-Imperialist Talk” have been greatly exaggerated.

Fuck off, Benji.

Benjy “knows” a lot about Venezuela, just ask him about the Orinoco oil sands! He didn’t look them up on wikipedia and regurgitate what he read, honest.

Tulse, me old mucker, you got to love Wikipedia. Now, the Orinoco oil sands…

Sarah, in English the phrase is “wolf in sheep’s clothing.”