Harry's Place

A ‘white’ Obama looks scarily like a young Arnold Schwartzenegger.

Then he’d definitely fail the drug test.

That was exactly my first reaction – Schwarzenegger – glad it wasn’t just me.

I don’t like Obama’s hair

I’m feeling nostalgic for this election already. You lot better have something more than the usual guff about the SWP and Islamist clerics lined up for next week.

I’m extremely fatigued by it all at this point.

“I don’t like Obama’s hair”

It’s just one comb movement away from a Hitler swish, isn’t it. (Sorry, but someone did mention Arnie).

If Hillary had won the nomination, we’d now be looking at John McCain in drag.

There are undoubtedly racists who wouldn’t vote for Obama because he’s black but I wonder if there are many liberals who will vote for him for the same reason.

“McCain” looks like Vernon Jordan. “Obama” looks like any number of the blow-dried weenies in Congress.

There are still rumblings about the Bradley Effect

Quite apart from the Bradley effect – which is about folk telling pollsters that they will vote for the black candidate when they won’t – I would love to know the actual level of the racist vote: folk not voting for Obama because he is black. That is very difficult to discern, of course.

“Quite apart from the Bradley effect – which is about folk telling pollsters that they will vote for the black candidate when they won’t – I would love to know the actual level of the racist vote: folk not voting for Obama because he is black. That is very difficult to discern, of course.”

Ann Coulter:

This is how two typical voters might answer a pollster’s question: “Whom do you support for president?”

Average Obama voter: “Obama.” (Name of average Obama voter: “Mickey Mouse.”)

Average McCain voter: “I’m voting for McCain, but I swear it’s just about the issues. It’s not because Obama’s black. If Barack Obama were a little more moderate — hey, I’d vote for Colin Powell. But my convictions force me to vote for the candidate who just happens to be white. Say, do you know where I can get Patti LaBelle tickets?”

Sy, (re 10.25 and 10.27 comments), there’s an article in today’s Graun that even I can identify as a total stinker

Equating Muslims with Nazis is a hazard in the Middle East, and misfires as a smear on Obama

FFS!

There are undoubtedly racists who wouldn’t vote for Obama because he’s black but I wonder if there are many liberals who will vote for him for the same reason.

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/19/8-barack-obama/

I’m pretty sure we all hope around here that he wins this election and takes America forward.

Well, you are wrong. I for one am convinced that he’ll be a disaster for America. Plenty of people are supporting him purely because he is black, wilfully ignoring his dodgy past and unsuitability for high office.
When people are bent on pursuing a suicide pact, however, there is little that others can do.

I thought a white Obama looked a bit like Bobby Kennedy
http://images.newstatesman.com/articles/2007/961/961_p24.jpg

Oh, today’s Guardian is the most unreadable ever (based on a quick skimming of its website, anyway).

And I agree with Nearly Oxfordian

Nearly,
As you’ve been so spectacularly wrong on every issue in this election campaign, I’ll take comfort from that.

“I thought a white Obama looked a bit like Bobby Kennedy”

If Obama had Bobby Kennedy Hair he could push it out of his eyes with his thumb and make all the co-eds swoon.

I have always been pro Hilary Obama sceptic omigod anything but Palin. I have never actually read anything by Obama until just now when I glanced at an excerpt from Audacity of Hope in the Sunday Times. I was captivated, even while trying not to switch off my cynical alert faculty. Surely the magnanimity expressed in this piece cannot just be to try and win votes from wavering Republicans?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5061438.ece

Theres a bit of early Talking Heads David Byrne about the Obama mock up.

Or cover of Kraftwerk’s Trans-Europe Express.

Plenty of people are supporting him purely because he is black

Oh, yes, it’s a huge factor. But I have a dream that one day, being black will not be an all-conquering advantage in American politics.

Even the Torygraph can’t quite bring itself to back McCain.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=A1YourView&xml=/opinion/2008/11/04/dl0401.xml

The poster just makes them both look rather Jewish (especially Mc Cain, oddly – I guess the new swarthyness really makes that frizzy/nappy hair pop). So maybe THATS why they put this up in NYC!

The Telegraph say that McCain made a fool of himself during the Banking crisis, yet is the safer option.
Odd.

So it’s o.k. for 95+% of blacks to vote for Obama solely out of “racial pride,” but it’s racist for whites to vote for McCain? Sorry, no white guilt here. For a man who began his campaign touting himself as being “beyond race” due to his “exotic” background, all the Obama camp has done is play the race card at every opportunity in order to forestall criticism of any kind. The racists are all on the left side of the ledger in this one. Whites owe no one any apologies for voting for McCain and against a neo- Stalinist with pretensions to a thugocracy of historic proportions if the outright attempts at intimidation and lawbreaking by the Obama campaign are any guide.

I for one am convinced that he’ll be a disaster for America.

A bit like Dubya then

wilfully ignoring his dodgy past

Again, similar to Dubya

and unsuitability for high office

Er, I’m sensing a pattern here.

a neo- Stalinist with pretensions to a thugocracy of historic proportions

Don’t worry virgil, Nader’s got no chance

Christ on a bike, Virgil, have you chucked your brain in a bucket of piss like the rest of the wingnuts? I expected so much more. Do you sincerely believe any word of that post wasn’t bullshit?

Tim

The Telegraph editorial is rather ambiguous, but I think they were saying that Obama is the safer option.

A neo stalinist with pretensions to a thugocracy of historic proportions! All the racists are democrats, none of them republicans!

Can anyone top that for sheer lunacy?

So it’s o.k. for 95+% of blacks to vote for Obama solely out of “racial pride,” but it’s racist for whites to vote for McCain?

90% of Blacks vote Democrat in years where there is a white candidate so that doesn’t really wash when you think about it Virgil.

On the other hand, this is the first campaign where one candidates rallies have been almost exclusively white (Palin)

A ‘white’ Obama looks scarily like a young Arnold Schwartzenegger.

Bugger me you’re right!

I hope I’m proved wrong, but I doubt Obama will be an effective world leader, much as I prefer him on domestic issues. On foreign policy, he lacks McCain’s vision, experience and toughness. And this is a dangerous time for the US to have an ineffective foreign policy.

Having said that, Obama as president will at least help restore the US’s popularity globally, so we shall hopefully see a lessening of the anti-American venom that has poisoned world politics since 9/11.

The disaster for America has been 8 years of Bush and the Republicans. The radical right of the Republican party have pursued an ideology that has failed the US economy, society and people. Wall Street is in tatters, the US housing market has imploded and the Republicans have been forced to intervene as only big government can.

Bush and the Republicans came to power as the result of a judicial coup, today the people of America can reclaim their democracy and at the same time remove these disgusting bunch of rapacious right wing republicans from power for a generation.

“a neo- Stalinist with pretensions to a thugocracy of historic proportions”

Despite the Daily Kos fantasies, The Presidency is an office of limited powers. Even if Obama was a complete nut, he will be tempered by many new Democrats in Congress from competitive districts, who will be reluctant to walk the plank for him and Historical Justice. Plus, McCain forced Obama to promise tax cuts so often and so loudly, that he will find it very costly to go on a rampage in that area.

So it’s o.k. for 95+% of blacks to vote for Obama solely out of “racial pride,”

Hang on a minute. Black folk vote overwhelmingly Democratic in presidential elections anyway. How many of those folks are voting for Obama purely because he is black?

Black Obama supporters are not comparable to racist anti-Obama voters (i.e. folk who feel they cannot vote for Obama because he is black, including racist Democrats).

Still supporting McCain, Marko?

Bush and the Republicans came to power as the result of a judicial coup, today the people of America can reclaim their democracy

Eh? Wasn’t there an election in 2004?

Bush and the republicans have proved to be neo-stalinists, they have seized control of the ‘commanding heights’ of the economy it was the Republicans that created a new Gulag (Guantanamo/renditions etc) and re-introduced stalinesque methods of torture. They really are scumbags that I for one will be pleased to see removed and if possible tried for human rights abuses.

Plus, McCain forced Obama to promise tax cuts so often and so loudly, that he will find it very costly to go on a rampage in that area.

Well, McCain told bare-faced lies about Obama’s tax plans and came up with so much bullshit about socialism etc that it was frankly embarrassing. So Obama had to try to correct all that. The “debate” about tax and philosophy was bizarre. One side was putting forward a moderate Fordist argument (Democrats) while the other side substituted argument with hysterics.

“They really are scumbags that I for one will be pleased to see removed and if possible tried for human rights abuses.”

One of many expectations that Obama will need to, er, temper. NY Times yesterday found, I’m sure to their surprise, that closing Gitmo will be problematic.

mesquito – its not the existence of Gitmo in and off itself that bothers me, rather the suspension of habeas corpus, imprisonment without trial and the use of torture.

closing Gitmo will be problematic.

Yes, Halliburton will be a bit annoyed if it closed. That’s capital outlay you understand.

Virgil was it you that come here and see the Robert E. Lee come pass?

I don’t bloody care: I want Obama to win come what may.

its not the existence of Gitmo in and off itself that bothers me, rather the suspension of habeas corpus, imprisonment without trial and the use of torture.

Well, they are not unconnected. Renting a bit of land in a communist country makes all that rather easier. Perhaps they could open up a camp in China too. Everyone seems quite friendly with the Chinese commies these days, and it will boost the already healthy trade in security equipment.

Its all over.
Bill O Reillys comedy election map has come back to planet earth.

http://www.foxnews.com/oreilly/winning-the-electoral-college/

David Herman: The United States imprisoned without trial, with no habeus corpus, hundreds of thousands of Wehrmach soldiers during the 1940s. And you can damn well bet that Obama or any other President will use whatever means are at his disposal to pry loose info to protect innocent lives.

Where torture leads to is the national disgrace of Abu Grahib, the loss of international prestige and the dehuminisation of both the tortured and the torturer. I don’t believe it ever saves innocent lives.

I don’t buy the analogy with Wehrmacht soldiers – at end of war nazi War criminals were tried, did have legal representation, vast majority were freed without trial – the story in this case is not the lack of habeas corpus but the lack of political will to see justice served against the vast majority of nazi war criminals.

NY Times:

Senators John McCain and Barack Obama have said they would close the detention camp, but the review of the government’s public files underscores the challenges of fulfilling that promise. The next president will have to contend with sobering intelligence claims against many of the remaining detainees.

So, mesquito, you think Gitmo’s ragged band of suspected Islamists, taxi drivers, tourists and desperadoes, are equivalent to Wehrmacht soldiers? Blimey.

…in an effort to remind voters to put the issue of race to one side. Let’s hope that they can.

How patronising. The US is way ahead of us in racial equality. This won’t happen here for years.

I’m not talking about Nazi war criminals, Herman. I’m talking about freaking conscripts. They were held “for the durations” and then some, with absolutley no recourse to American civilian courts. Unjust? Maybe, but too bad for them.

Also, what happened at at Abu G was not at policy, it was a disgrace for which several soldiers were duly punished.

Mosquito – I’m not being soft on terrorists, if there is proof that they have been involved in terrorism then that needs to be put before a judge and/or jury and then the strongest possible sentence should be handed down.

Fuck the strongest sentence. Shoot the fuckers instead. Preferably on the Battlefield.

Marko wrote:

“doubt Obama will be an effective world leader, much as I prefer him on domestic issues. On foreign policy, he lacks McCain’s vision, experience and toughness. And this is a dangerous time for the US to have an ineffective foreign policy.”

maybe so, but surely the real issue is, President Palin

does anyone want Palin’s finger on the nuclear button?

http://www.palinaspresident.us/

I don’t believe that Abu G was not policy – after all other forms of torture is. I believe that those tried were guilty but they also carried the can for politicians at top of chain of command.

The second Palin was selected, no sensible person could support McCain.

Mogorth – problem is that US keeps on killing the wrong fuckers – innocents attending weddings etc.

Benji: Obama will clearly need your advice on this. What do you propose to do about the poor dears in Gitmo?

Herman: They are doing just that, Herman, except in cases where it’s proven difficult to repatriate. What you seem to want is their transfer into the United States and given all the protections of American citizens (yes, they endure despite the Bush Tyranny), which is radical and unprecedented.

Morgoth: I suppose that is the one real lesson of this affair.

I’m not talking about Nazi war criminals, Herman. I’m talking about freaking conscripts. They were held “for the durations” and then some, with absolutley no recourse to American civilian courts.

Wouldn’t they have been classed as prisoners of war?

“Wouldn’t they have been classed as prisoners of war?”

They were.

Having said that, Obama as president will at least help restore the US’s popularity globally, so we shall hopefully see a lessening of the anti-American venom that has poisoned world politics since 9/11.

That would tend to suggest that what we have been seeing is, to a large extent, anti-Bushism rather than anti-Americanism.

Shoot the fuckers instead. Preferably on the Battlefield.

You’ll be disappointed to learn that the battlefield is the only place the US can shoot them. The US does not carry out death sentences by shooting. I am told namby pamby lethal injection is all the rage these days. Bloody liberals.

Venichka. It saddens me to see Ann Karpf, author of today’s CiF total stinker, turn into Norman Finkelstein lite. Both of them warped by their experience as children of Holocaust survivors.

You are right about those soldiers in Germany Mesq – they were held in appaling conditions on far less food than was necessary to survive, with not enough bedding or shelter. They were soldiers conscripted into the army. It was a bit of a disgrace, but of course nobody gave a damn at the time.

They were.[Prisoners of war]

So they benefited from the protections afforded by the Geneva Convention.

Or at least should have done.

Who are we talking about, Andrew? Of course the Germans benefitted from the Geneva Convention, even while allied prisoners less so, and those held by the Japanese Empire not at all. But if you are not a uniformed member of a recognized nation’s armed forces, you get what you get.

Ami,
The Sunday Times has been one of the most sickeningly fawning Messiah groupies, especially in the shape of Sullivan – whose writings give new meaning to the warning ‘Don’t try to write coherent prose when on acid’.

I got the feeling the poster is antiquated might had been the right thing some year back not today at the end of a marathon campaigning on who is going to be the leader of the free world.

USA have today proven the America critics wrong – again – a year ago not many European USA “experts” and pundits wouldn’t had given Obama a chance, you know he is black Americans is racists no chance that they elect a black man for president.

Already 2004 Obama was presented as an coming man by the Democratic party. He was backed up by powerful interests in the Democratic party as candidate against Hillary, they wouldn’t have done that if they didn’t thought he could win.

Obama draw record crowds to his rallies, campaign contributions is flooding in from all kind of people, have huge ground operation where people have to cue to be volunteers.

There will always be some racist wingnuts, probably much less in USA than in many other places in this world where its not uncommon that people vote by ethnic and religious lines almost 100%.

But lasse, voting for Obama purely because he is black IS racist.

Absolutely, Virgil!

I don’t believe it ever saves innocent lives.

And you know this because … ?

I can point to several recent US elections in which a majority of black voters favored a white candidate over a black candidate.

The overwhelming majority of black voters in this election are supporting Obama for his politics, not his race– as are the majority of white voters for Obama and McCain. The fact that he is an African-American may be attracting some blacks who haven’t voted in previous elections.

And when older blacks who remember the bad old days of segregation express pride in a black candidate for President, is that really so awful?

The second Palin was selected, no sensible person could support McCain

Oh, I just love this rational, progressive, liberal statement. Everyone who disagrees with you is mad, right?
Utter disgrace.

And when older blacks who remember the bad old days of segregation express pride in a black candidate for President, is that really so awful?

Yes. It’s called racism.

The Sunday Times has been one of the most sickeningly fawning Messiah groupies

Yes, because Murdoch media outlets are well known for being allowed editorial independance during elections.

I think it’s fairly clear to most people now what an absolute disaster it was electing Bush rather than Gore in 2000. I can’t think of a single thing which Gore wouldn’t have done better. Hell, even the Christian fundies can’t say Bush helped them out on gay marriage or abortion.

that’s why I said believe and not know. If you had read the thread you would see I was responding to the counter position i.e. application of torture does save lives – I can’t think of one concrete example where this is true.

I don’t think it really matters, we should be far more Kantian in our morality, we shouldn’t treat others as means to an end.

Modernity and David T,

I don’t think the entire election can be boiled down to Sarah Palin…

my last comment in reply to NO at 12:59

But lasse, voting for Obama purely because he is black IS racist.

Its hard to know how many vote for Obama just because he is black, an interesting scenario had been if e.g. Condi or Powell had been the republicans candidate, then you see if e.g. blacks had voted Republican instead of Democratic as the usually do.

In this race it seems to be the case that many otherwise Republicans vote and endorse Obama not because of he is black but because of the issues. There was even a catholic priest that wrote an article saying you shouldn’t vote for the otherwise best candidate because of the abortion issue, be prepared for serious hardship with McCain but its worth it due to the abortion issue.

I also think its some difference if people vote against someone due to race or ethnicity than voting for a candidate because he is one of us, e.g. hard core Pentecostal nuts vote for Palin because she is one of us.

I don’t think the entire election can be boiled down to Sarah Palin…

I agree, but I think her selection has played a massive part in improving Obama’s chances. It was a fuck-up of monumental proportions. We will look back on this in decades to come and see it as one of the most bizarre decision in American political history

MAH, David T et al,

The moment McCain lost the election was when he describes the US economy as fundamentally strong on the day (day before?) Lehmans collapsed. The idiocy and incompatence he had shown in selecting Palin became an incontravertable fact

Mesquito, the point I was making was that the German prisoners were, at least in theory, subject to certain legal protections so the comparison with prisoners Guantanamo was not quite appropriate.

If someone is not a member of the armed forces then they are a civilian and should be tried in a civilian court.

Actually, on reflection I’d like to change:

I think it’s fairly clear to most people now what an absolute disaster it was electing Bush rather than Gore in 2000

to Bush rather than Gore or McCain in 2000.

And when older blacks who remember the bad old days of segregation express pride in a black candidate for President, is that really so awful?

Yes. It’s called racism.

Yes, and the moral equivalent of the Ku Klux Klan.

I’m not prepared to write Palin off either (although she clearly at first was not ready for such a degree of public exposure) – the (in some case frankly quite extraordinary) attacks and general abuse and sneering that she has been subject to (from this side of the pond) strike me both as the kind of supercilious and ignorant anti-Americanism that Steven Fry is rightly condemnatory of and as reminiscent of how much of the liberal-left sneered down their noses at Reagan – whom, in retrospect, and with good reason, history seems to judge well. I kind of suspect that with time a similar opinion of Bush will prevail.

I don’t think the entire election can be boiled down to Sarah Palin…

I think that in some ways, it can be. Doesn’t McCain’s selection of her as the person who might well have to replace him as president cast some doubt on his good sense and judgment? What makes you think his other decisions will be any wiser?

I feel that SNL’s portrayal of Palin and McCain’s appearance and use of Joe the Plumber in his stumping has given me the impression they cannot be considered serious. They look like a big joke.

I pall around with British conservative voters. They all think Palin is a nut

And when older blacks who remember the bad old days of segregation express pride in a black candidate for President, is that really so awful?
Yes. It’s called racism.
Yes, and the moral equivalent of the Ku Klux Klan

Absolute and utter bullshit. This attempt to turn victims of racism into racists is despicable.

Its an amazing thing that the US is on the verge of electing a black man president, its amazing precisely because of the history of racism shown towards blacks in the US, from Slavery, through lynching, to economic, social and political exclusion. Segregation is for many a matter of living memory. Of course Blacks should feel proud that a black man is gonna be elected president – the point is, so should all Americans. Its an amazing moment in US history.

Palin really wasn’t that bad a choice. The biggest challenge for McCain has been the need to disassociate himself as much as possible from the damaged Republican brand. Palin, as someone almost entirely unknown outside Alaska, allowed him to do that without simultaneously alienating the Republican base. People outside that base could look at her without reflexively thinking “Republican” – something they couldn’t have done with Romney, Ridge or Rice, say – whilst people in the base knew exactly who and what she is. The problem has been that during the two months since she was introduced, through the greater awareness of her actions of governor and her positions now, everyone else has come to realise exactly who and what she is, and to inextricably link her with the Republican brand. She became Little Miss GOP, and her ratings plummeted accordingly.

If the convention had been later in the season, I think it could have worked. But as it stands, it didn’t, and Palin instead merely served to deprive McCain of the one thing that he could really have exploited to tighten the race in the last few weeks: The issue of experience.

And when older blacks who remember the bad old days of segregation express pride in a black candidate for President, is that really so awful?
Yes. It’s called racism.
Yes, and the moral equivalent of the Ku Klux Klan

Absolute and utter bullshit. This attempt to turn victims of racism into racists is despicable.

David, my remark about the Ku Klux Klan was sarcastic. Yet another reminder of the dangers of sarcasm on the Net. But some of us never learn.

I think that in some ways, it can be. Doesn’t McCain’s selection of her as the person who might well have to replace him as president cast some doubt on his good sense and judgment?

To me it seems to bee the connecting thought among the prominent Republicans that have endorsed Obama openly or indirect – PALIN – they are revolted by the thought that she might be President of USA.

The poster was created by New York ad agency Grey and features the slogan “Let the issues be the issue”.

How touching! Do they mean ‘issues’ like a certain supressed video in which Obama expresses sentiments that would have utterly killed the career of a white candidate?

How many of those folks are voting for Obama purely because he is black?

I’d say about 95% of the 95%.

But hey! They’re not *racist*…just ‘proud’ of Obama the way Reverend Wright is.

In the world of soft leftist bigotry a little ‘chauvinism’ (shan’t call it racism!) on the part of Blacks is quite acceptable, and White liberals dismiss it in a tone of voice worthy of Glinda, ‘Good-Witch-of-the-North.

Obama too?

Obama too!

The second Palin was selected, no sensible person could support McCain.

Really?

The second?

Hmmm…I take it you feel all 700,000 residents of Alaska are red-necks, racists and simpletons.

What will you do if the american public ‘disobeys’ its moral betters, pulls a ‘Dewey beats Truman’, and elects McCain/Palin as I suspect they will?

Having said that, Obama as president will at least help restore the US’s popularity globally,

Why should americans elect a dimwitted airhead, a community ‘organiser’, just to get some traction in a world populated by murderous tyrants and selfish ingrates?

I find it amazing, not to mention telling, that Obama’s support is so low despite the war, the housing crisis and the economy in general.

He’s the square peg in a round hole.

Sorry Gene, thought it was out of character.

Palin is the most stupid person ever to figure at this level.

Thats not anti American, thats what the American people think.

The real insult was by McCain in picking her in the first place.

Come on, Gregg. McCain’s choice of Plain was utterly dire. There is no other way to spin it.

Of course, it also indicates the strength of that segment of the Republican Party – rather too strong right now.

my remark about the Ku Klux Klan was sarcastic.

Even to me it was obvious, it was such a heavy artillery that it was hard to misunderestimate.

“Of course, it also indicates the strength of that segment of the Republican Party – rather too strong right now.”

I, for one, will welcome my new socialist overlords.

I’m not prepared to write Palin off either (although she clearly at first was not ready for such a degree of public exposure)

And by the end of the campaign the improvement was precisely zero.
As her inability to understand the job of the VP showed.

‘Doesn’t McCain’s selection of her as the person who might well have to replace him as president cast some doubt on his good sense and judgment? What makes you think his other decisions will be any wiser?’

I think McCain’s choice of Palin was a tactical decision based on the need to mobilise the Republican base, and to recapture media attention from Obama. I think it was a big mistake, as McCain should have been trying to occupy the centre ground politically.

Still, I don’t see that Palin is necessarily more objectionable as a VP candidate than Bush Snr, Dan Quayle or Dick Cheney.

mesquito, I don’t believe you, I have no doubt you will be busy building a counter revolutionary hegemonic bloc.

“I take it you feel all 700,000 residents of Alaska are red-necks, racists and simpletons”

No, only the ones who voted for Palin.

She is comparable to Quayle.

I bet even Quayle would’ve sussed the Sarkozy phone call.

mesquito, I don’t believe you, I have no doubt you will be busy building a counter revolutionary hegemonic bloc.

Har!

Of course, I face the ultimate deilemma. Do I make fun of the Presdent of the United States and inevitably accused of racism? Think of the poor writers at Saturday Night Live, for God’s sake!

Marko wrote:

“I don’t think the entire election can be boiled down to Sarah Palin…”

why not? Doesn’t it show something about McCain’s poor decision making capacity?

will McCain last 8 years in one of the hardest jobs in the world, lack of sleep, constant pressure, quick decision making? I doubt it

so Palin, as VP would take over, thus you get President Palin by default

Marko, whatever Obama’s faults or inexperience, I can see that’s not an alternative that any sensible person would want to choose?

Sarah Palin makes Dan Quayle look like Aristotle by comparison

anyone remember Dan Quayle?

potatoe

No, only the ones who voted for Palin.

Racist much, David T?

John P:
I find it amazing, not to mention telling, that Obama’s support is so low

Oh, that’s such a bullshit line. He is a black, intellectual, liberal Democrat. America has had very few black politicians at the federal level, and none at the Presidential level. Being an intellectual has been a vote-loser much more often than not throughout American history. And America hasn’t elected a liberal President for at least forty-four years, and has only voted for a Democratic President in three of the past ten elections. Conversely, his opponent has (well, had) a strong reputation as a moderate, is a consumate political insider with over 25 years of campaigning experience, and fronts the most ruthless and well-developed political machine the world has ever seen on top of an army of utterly deranged internet warriors. By all rights, this should have been an impossible slog for Obama. While it won’t be a shock if he wins today, it will still be one hell of an achievement.

Mesquito:
I, for one, will welcome my new socialist overlords.

We’ll be expecting tea.

Yes, Schwartzenegger! I thought I must be going mad but I see I’m not the only one. Fitting really as “Schwartzenegger” I think means “white, black” in German (?)

With Palin’s 70-80 percent approval ratings, Alaskans must be a bunch of retards. Must be.

has only voted for a Democratic President in three of the past ten elections

Or four, counting Gore’s popular vote win in 2000.

Don’t forget that if Obama gets over the 50% mark, he’ll be only the fourth Democrat to achieve that.

With Palin’s 70-80 percent approval ratings

I believe it’s down to 60% now. And falling. And I still think that (if she doesn’t become VP) she’s going to face a hell of a re-election struggle in Alaska in 2010 – and if she loses, that’ll take her out of the running for 2012.

“I believe it’s down to 60% now.”

Uh-oh. Before too long she’ll be down in Obama territory.

‘Sarah Palin makes Dan Quayle look like Aristotle by comparison’

A bit of an exaggeration, surely ?

My recollection of Quayle was that he came across as more incompetent and gaffe-prone than Palin; certainly, he was selected by Bush Snr to attract votes, despite not really being up to the job of VP.

But this didn’t mean that he brought armageddon to the US…

“Yet another reminder of the dangers of sarcasm on the Net.”

No, I think its another reminder of how useful it is. People that miss sarcasm that obvious are obviously too into their own righteousness.

in the shape of Sullivan: I have nothing but contempt for Andrew Sullivan’s drivelings as I have not forgotten, and I don’t know how he has the cheek to think readers will have forgotten, his adulatory drooling over George W before he turned on W for his social policies.
This was in the early days when I was still mourning the stealing of the election, and before I felt more favourable to Bush in that immediate post 9/11 time. Every single silly thing Bush did, advertent or inadvertent, Sullivan spun into praise that it was in fact, a very very wise thing, even if we mere mortals didn’t yet know why. It was as if Bush were Chauncy Gardener and Sullivan was his credulous acolyte.

Sullivan become increasingly buffoonish.

Mr Danger – your right and I’m sorry. In mitigation you can read some unbelievable comments on this thread that should be sarcastic but aren’t.

“Mr Danger – your right and I’m sorry. In mitigation you can read some unbelievable comments on this thread that should be sarcastic but aren’t.”

Yeah. Right. Whatever.

With Palin’s 70-80 percent approval ratings, Alaskans must be a bunch of retards. Must be.

Nah, just spreading the wealth junkies, live on a piece of land bought and paid for by the despicable lower 48 (Washington insiders), raking in record amounts of federal subsidies every year. Any Gov that could hand out $2000 every year in spreading the wealth would be popular and then add on another $1200 due to soaring energy prices is not something that make a Gov unpopular. Few governors have these options to dole out spreading the wealth dollars.

And many of them believe that “independence from the despicable lower 48 would make them better of?

Nah, just spreading the wealth junkies, live on a piece of land bought and paid for by the despicable lower 48 (Washington insiders), raking in record amounts of federal subsidies every year.

Of course, Alaska Democrats, standing as usual on principle, have fought this largess tooth and nail. Right?

John P

“I find it amazing, not to mention telling, that Obama’s support is so low despite the war, the housing crisis and the economy in general.”

Myself also. I find it telling, and indeed very revealing, that this anarcho-Stalinist with gangster tendencies will have the cheek to claim he has somehow won a “popular vote” following this shambles of an election. Still – the BBC will finally have got what it wanted – paid for at OUR expense!

Well, you are wrong. I for one am convinced that he’ll be a disaster for America. Plenty of people are supporting him purely because he is black, wilfully ignoring his dodgy past and unsuitability for high office.

Other than that you don’t like him, why would it be such a disaster for America to have a president who proposes universal health care, stricter gun control, a higher minimum wage, equal pay, higher pay for teachers… actually never mind, don’t answer that.
Just answer me what you base “unsuitability for high office” on, how can *you* gauge that? You seem just to assert it over and over again.

anarcho-stalinist with gangster tendencies – you are truly deranged. What are you gonna be like in the morning – regrouping in the hills with all the other rabid, right wing hatemongers no doubt.

Altogether now: Obama boom ba yay, Obama boom ba yay!

anarcho-Stalinist
[...]
Still – the BBC will finally have got what it wanted – paid for at OUR expense!

OK, we’re now officially beyond parody.

I get it Nearly Oxfordian, you’re high on drugs and giggling away as you write your crazed musings, right? Anarcho-stalinist? STALINIST?

“Other than that you don’t like him, why would it be such a disaster for America to have a president who proposes universal health care, stricter gun control, a higher minimum wage, equal pay, higher pay for teachers… actually never mind, don’t answer that.”

Har! He proposed that stuff? Whio knew?

Still – the BBC will finally have got what it wanted – paid for at OUR expense!

I’m expecting Joe Biden to pull off a rubber mask and reveal himself to be none other than Jonathon Ross.

I’d love to know what an anarcho-Stalinist is. It’s a Warhammer 40k reference yes?

“I, for one, will welcome my new socialist overlords.”

Mesquito, we may just have a job for you. how does ‘community organiser in charge of pulling up pants’ sound?

I’d love to know what an anarcho-Stalinist is. It’s a Warhammer 40k reference yes?

Once again, HP is hampered by the absence of a Quotefile.

Har! He proposed that stuff? Whio knew?

Nobody. I just made it up. In reality, he’s proposing to make big bristly moustaches compulsory, create a big cult around his own person and demand to be called Father Obama.

“anarcho-Stalinist”

Proof that NO plucks his pejoratives from a Scrabble bag.

In reality, he’s proposing to make big bristly moustaches compulsory, create a big cult around his own person and demand to be called Father

When did he become Teddy Roosevelt?

“I’m expecting Joe Biden to pull off a rubber mask and reveal himself to be none other than Jonathon Ross.”

With Clarkson as McCain.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7707641.stm

“I’d love to know what an anarcho-Stalinist is. It’s a Warhammer 40k reference yes?”

I’m not sure what it is either, Herman, and I don’t know what a Warhammer 40k is. But I’ll take a stab at it.

The closest concept I know of is “anarcho-tryrany,” where the ruling class is in symbiotic alliance with the criminal underclass and opposed to the middle. For instance, the political class refuses to impose order on the underclass, and uses the resulting chaos as a pretext disarm the middle. Of course, the ruling class retains the benefits of wealth, including armed security, and the underclass has easier prey. (See Zimbabwe, for example.)

This is of course purely theoretical and is not intended to be a description of Chicago.

Russell Brand advocated voting for Obama at his disgraceful appearence at the MTV awards – so yes, the BBC do have a major part to play in this – paid for by the decent majority against their wishes.

Obama combines the worst and most extreme elements of Marxism and anarchism – anyone can see that – anyone not blinded by the lies of the BBC that is!

You can laugh all you like – its a disgrace.

America has had very few black politicians at the federal level, and none at the Presidential level.

Uhhh… so what?

Are you voting for a vapid bimbo just to respect some racial quota systeme?

If there aren’t that many Blacks at the federal level, then perhaps the Black community doesn’t have its ass in gear.

After Obama looses the election, he could maybe help ‘em organise, or something.

He could become a ‘community organiser’ and organise things!

And America hasn’t elected a liberal President for at least forty-four years, and has only voted for a Democratic President in three of the past ten elections.

Ah shucks!

So you’ll vote Dem out of sympathy?

Perhaps the Democratic Party doesn’t have its ass in gear either.

potatoe

A mispelled tuber trumps ‘Reverend’ Wright’s “Amerikkka” 9 times outta 10.

In any case, better a hill of ‘potatoes’ than Obama’s hill of beans.

Put THAT on yer plate!

“Mesquito, we may just have a job for you. how does ‘community organiser in charge of pulling up pants’ sound?”

Har! I’ll take it!

Mesquito, don’t make me get all ‘Eighteenth Brumaire’ on your arse.

Brand was paid by the BBC to appear on a rival TV station’s awards show? How odd

Oh get the 18th brumaire out – then we can get all hayden White and deconstruct it.

Obama combines the worst and most extreme elements of Marxism and anarchism – anyone can see that – anyone not blinded by the lies of the BBC that is!

Okay, are you Craig Brown, and do you write for Private Eye?

Perhaps Mosquito, NO et al should retreat to Alaska and build an anti-anarcho-stalinist-marxist resistance movement – you could call it the grey elephants,
you Kulak swine!

Oh bollocks, I’ve just realised the NO lurking here really is the spoof. You’re good, whoever you are.

“Oh bollocks, I’ve just realised the NO lurking here really is the spoof. You’re good, whoever you are.”

Agree. I was fooled too. Pity the real NO.

Oh get the 18th brumaire out – then we can get all hayden White and deconstruct it.

I can’t believe we’re doing this. Alright…

The correct term for a modern ruling class that has (re-)created a symbiotic relationship with an underclass is not “anarcho-Stalinist” (a combination of two more contradictory terms it is impossible to imagine) nor “anarcho-tyranny” (such a tyranny would be resolutely egalitarian – indeed, forcibly so). It is, in fact, “nihilism”. In the C20th, such relationships are the defining feature of fascism, conservatism’s fall-back position once the ruling class look to be irrevocably losing their grip on power.

Agree. I was fooled too. Pity the real NO.

Damn. Not so much beyond parody as… actual parody, then.

Well, Greg, I’m not going to argue what the “correct” term is. The “anarcho-tyrrany” I describe is not pulled from Marxist tradition. Rather, it is a concept in American Paleoconservative ciruculation.

Does this mean that John P is also a spoof?

There have been people labelled as “Anarcho-Stalinists” (it does seem to be a right-wing term of abuse rather than an actual political position.)

The American activist Wilhelm Kunstler used to get the name thrown at him for supporting neither Washington or Moscow.

here is an example:

http://eddriscoll.com/archives/008614.php

“A bit of an exaggeration, surely ?”

Marko, look at Palin’s underlying beliefs, creationism, limited outlook, etc

check out this interview, and ask if the candidate for the job of VP doesn’t know what the American constitution says about the VP’s job, then either they are incredibly lazy or mentally stupid and you wouldn’t want them to have that job, in the first place.

The US constitution is a key document in American life and a professional politician should know it well, be fully briefed on it and be able to answer simple questions on the topic

Palin can’t.

http://modernityblog.wordpress.com/2008/11/02/palin-and-sarkozy/ (second one down)

American Paleoconservative ciruculation – eating more greens might help

a concept in American Paleoconservative ciruculation
Kunstler

Alright, this whole things a spoof, isn’t it?

Although taking it seriously: According to that link and on from there, Graham, anarcho-Stalinism and anarcho-authoritarianism describe a political philosophy which demands maximum liberty at home whilst tolerating any and all infringements of liberty on the part of selected foreign nations. What does that have to do with the ruling class using the under-class as a counter-revolutionary force?

It strikes me that the correct term for the position described as anarcho-Stalinist/authoritarian, would be rank hypocrisy. Although that’s a synonym for conservatism in my book, so we’re back to where we started.

Gregg: I never used “anarcho-Stalinism” or “anarcho-authoritarianism”. You’ll have to ask a Marxist about those. My term has nothing directly to do with foreign policy.

Dammit I leave for one hour and NO is a spoof. But wait, what if the real NO and the spoof NO are the same BUT they’re a spoof, namely Craig Brown?
… I think we should be told.

When did he become Teddy Roosevelt?

Not Roosevelt, G.K.Chesterton.

Gregg: I never used “anarcho-Stalinism” or “anarcho-authoritarianism”. You’ll have to ask a Marxist about those.

I am a sort-of Marxist (don’t shoot me!) and those terms are utterly meaningless under any analysis. You offered your “anarcho-tyranny” definition as an explanation of what “anarcho-Stalinism” might mean. I took you at your word.

My term has nothing directly to do with foreign policy.

I don’t really see that it has anything to do with anything. All it really tells me is that neither you nor these paleoconservative circles have any idea what anarchism is. You’ve probably fallen for the old trap that it means “no rules”. It doesn’t, it means “no rulers”. Not, NOT specifically in Marxist theory, but in the dictionary, in the Greek words from which we get the word from. Please tell me, how can you have a tyranny without a ruler? How can you have an anarcho- anything if there is a ruling class? You’re using anarchy as another word for chaos. It isn’t.

Geez, Gregg. I was just using the word as I found it. If anarchy mean “no rulers but with rules”, that explains why it’s appeal is limited to marijana-impaired undergrads.

Sonja, if only.

As GK said (amongst much other wisdom):

“The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected.”

Nah, just spreading the wealth junkies, live on a piece of land bought and paid for by the despicable lower 48 (Washington insiders), raking in record amounts of federal subsidies every year.

Baloney!

Alaskans are very hard-working and independant, and it’s the wealth generated by THEIR labour that helps support the parasitic elements in lower 48 Amercia, elements who’ll no doubt support ‘Dear Leader’.

Obama doesn’t have what it takes to be president.

He only APPEARS presidential….like tuxedoes and top-hats.

As for brains and grey matter?

Obama’s head is so empty he’s what French Canadians would call a ‘case-de-bain’ ( a bathing-cap).

Nah, just spreading the wealth junkies, live on a piece of land bought and paid for by the despicable lower 48 (Washington insiders), raking in record amounts of federal subsidies every year.

Baloney!

Alaskans are very hard-working and independant, and it’s the wealth generated by THEIR labour that helps support the parasitic elements in lower 48 Amercia, elements who’ll no doubt support ‘Dear Leader’.

Obama doesn’t have what it takes to be president.

He only APPEARS presidential….like tuxedoes and top-hats.

As for brains and grey matter?

Obama’s head is so empty he’s what French Canadians would call a ‘case-de-bain’ ( a bathing-cap).

We won’t need any Marilyn Monroes at this Whitehouse.

‘anarcho-authoritarianism’

That’s Morgy’s niche.

Is Barack Obama the “promised warrior” coming to help the Hidden Imam of Shiite Muslims conquer the world?

The question has made the rounds in Iran since last month, when a pro-government Web site published a Hadith (or tradition) from a Shiite text of the 17th century. The tradition comes from Bahar al-Anvar (meaning Oceans of Light) by Mullah Majlisi, a magnum opus in 132 volumes and the basis of modern Shiite Islam.

According to the tradition, Imam Ali Ibn Abi-Talib (the prophet’s cousin and son-in-law) prophesied that at the End of Times and just before the return of the Mahdi, the Ultimate Saviour, a “tall black man will assume the reins of government in the West.” Commanding “the strongest army on earth,” the new ruler in the West will carry “a clear sign” from the third imam, whose name was Hussein Ibn Ali. The tradition concludes: “Shiites should have no doubt that he is with us.”

In a curious coincidence Obama’s first and second names–Barack Hussein–mean “the blessing of Hussein” in Arabic and Persian. His family name, Obama, written in the Persian alphabet, reads O Ba Ma, which means “he is with us,” the magic formula in Majlisi’s tradition.

Mystical reasons aside, the Khomeinist establishment sees Obama’s rise as another sign of the West’s decline and the triumph of Islam. Obama’s promise to seek unconditional talks with the Islamic Republic is cited as a sign that the U.S. is ready to admit defeat. Obama’s position could mean abandoning three resolutions passed by the United Nations Security Council setting conditions that Iran should meet to avoid sanctions. Seeking unconditional talks with the Khomeinists also means an admission of moral equivalence between the U.S. and the Islamic Republic. It would imply an end to the description by the U.S. of the regime as a “systematic violator of human rights.”

Obama has abandoned claims by all U.S. administrations in the past 30 years that Iran is “a state sponsor of terrorism.” Instead, he uses the term “violent groups” to describe Iran-financed outfits such as Hamas and Hezbollah.

Obama has also promised to attend a summit of the Organization of the Islamic Conference within the first 100 days of his presidency. Such a move would please the mullahs, who have always demanded that Islam be treated differently, and that Muslim nations act as a bloc in dealings with Infidel nations.

Obama’s election would boost President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s chances of winning a second term next June. Ahmadinejad’s entourage claim that his “steadfastness in resisting the American Great Satan” was a factor in helping Obama defeat “hardliners” such as Hillary Clinton and, later, it hopes, John McCain.

A number of Khomeinist officials have indicated their preference for Obama over McCain, who is regarded as an “enemy of Islam.” A Foreign Ministry spokesman says Iran does not wish to dictate the choice of the Americans but finds Obama “a better choice for everyone.” Ali Larijani, Speaker of the Islamic Majlis, Iran’s ersatz parliament, has gone further by saying the Islamic Republic “prefers to see Barack Obama in the White House” next year.

After Bush Jr. & Co. botched the response to Hurricane Katrina and let New Orleans drown, 95% of black Americans would have voted for the democratic candidate no matter who he or she was.

Someone please give John P his medications before he chokes on the foam coming from his mouth.

At first I thought that white Obama looked like Bobby Kennedy, but on reflection he does look more like a young Schwartzennegger.

If Palin did get President she would probably honor her promise like the promise she gave to Wasilla when campaigning for Governor, if I get elected you get the VIP lane. And she did, her illustrious so called tax cuts was in the investment/capital budget while increasing operational budget considerably, sort of a Rep. idea of small government I believe. The capital budget was drastically cut but capital projects in Matsuo borough (Wasilla) were mostly untouched. Such behavior is in my book unacceptable for national or even state leaders, they have duty to see to the whole nation or state not favors their home town.

If she had walked the walk she should of course used the extra windfall from energy companies for improvements of Alaska infrastructure etc and refused the beloved earmark dollars for such stuff. I’m not sure but I believe that oil companies can deduct state taxes from federal taxes.

At first I thought that white Obama looked like Bobby Kennedy, but on reflection he does look more like a young Schwartzennegger.

Yeah, well when I look a McCain’s hair I know what’s become of the shag carpet I had in my apartment, 30 years ago, while at university.

And an Obama presidency, though obviously limited to just one term, will be even more exciting and riveting than Carter’s!

BUt who will play the role of Islamist friendly Zbigniew Breszinski?

John P – the views of Iran are about as relevant as the neo-Nazis for Obama.

In terms of federal subsidy, Alaska ranked 1st in per capita federal spending in 18 years out of the 25 from 1981 to 2005. http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html

Baloney, huh?

I see even John P has resigned himself to an Obama presidency.

An Iranian dissident asks some VERY hard and VERY pertinant questions about Obama’s policies towards Iran.

http://www.hudsonny.org/2008/11/from-bogota-to-tehran.php

No way JP don’t give up the good fight man!! Who will be around when Obama unzips himself and is revealed to be a giant space lizard of the anarcho-stalinist death cult???

Hold the line.

Seriously; McCain would have been the man in 2000. Palin – come on..she believes LITERALLY that the world was created about 6500 years ago on a Teusday at 230PM. Thats a first class ticket to freakville.

But hey – as Mr GW Bush has been saying these last 8 years – it’s a democracy. Let the people speak. :-)

BUt who will play the role of Islamist friendly Zbigniew Breszinski?

Might find some Islamist friendly republican from some former R administration.

OK, an honest question for the “Obama is a Marxist/Stalinist” brigade.

Assuming Obama gets elected, what policies do you expect him to implement which will demonstrate his Marxism/Stalinism?

John P,
Would you like to invent some exit polls?

mesquito@2:59pm

RE: “purely theoretical” description………CHORTLE

Is there a post on HP where John P has commented but hasn’t managed to shoehorn in a comment about muslims?

At least the latest of his staggers towards senility is funny. Is John P the promised warrior come to propel the Byzantines back to Constantinople?

John P,
Would you like to invent some exit polls?

I hear Obama has won in Dixville Notch, New Hampshire.

I’ve been to Dixville Notch.

They’re all a bunch of dix.

Is there a post on HP where John P has commented but hasn’t managed to shoehorn in a comment about muslims?

That posting…and it’s far from complete… was written by a Muslim.

I’m merely the humble messenger.

And I don’t think there is anything funny about the régime in Iran.

It’s Jimmah Carter all over again.

The US constitution is a key document in American life and a professional politician should know it well, be fully briefed on it and be able to answer simple questions on the topic

Yes Modernity, no American should leave home without it.

Palin – come on..she believes LITERALLY that the world was created about 6500 years ago on a Teusday at 230PM. Thats a first class ticket to freakville.

And what does the Rev. Wright believe, anything different? Beware the path you tread, sonny.

And what does the Rev. Wright believe, …

Which ticket is the old Vietnam warrior Rev. Wright on? What public office does he want the American citizens to elect him to?

That posting…and it’s far from complete… was written by a Muslim.

I’m merely the humble messenger.

Why on Earth is whether or not Taheri is a muslim of any relevance?

Isn’t it a bit late to be trying to convince people that Iran likes Obama? After all, the Republicans have been trying that for the last year and it hasn’t worked.

Has Obama brainwashed everyone?

The poster was created by New York ad agency Grey and features the slogan “Let the issues be the issue”.

That is because even admongers are too subtle to use the slogan “Grey is a clever ad agency”.

About the subject of this thread. Have to agree with two black women in my office that while the white Obama is believable, the black McCain is not.