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	<title>Comments on: Statement from the Green Party in reply to Tony Gosling article</title>
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	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: Solomon1</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/comment-page-2/#comment-376293</link>
		<dc:creator>Solomon1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:53:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/#comment-376293</guid>
		<description>Iam a Jew and am proud of my Jewish heritage, however, I do not support Zionism. Two wrongs do not make a right. The state of Israel is land stolen from the Palestinians who rightfully belong there. However, now it would be impossible to give it all back. But Palestinians should have the right to their own independent state and should be compensated for the lands that were lost. This is common sense justice. If you hand your land stolen wouldnt you want to fight back? thats normal. Palestinians are being made to suffer because of the Holocaust yet they did not have anything to do with it! The Germans did! Itis a moraql duty that international pressure should be put upon Israel over its genocidal policies towards the Palestinians. Its a moral duty that all Jews should stand up and be counted and show their actice opposition to such genocidal policies. I as a Jew see it as my religious duty to speak up against all wrongs. There are many Israelis who do not support their governments policies towards the Palestinians and risk their very lives in becoming human shileds, crossing the apartheid wall to get medical supplies to Plaestinian children. The Isreali&#039;s initially but covertly helped Hamas because they thought it would divide the Palestinians and weaken the PLO but little did they realise, although they soon learnt,  that they were helping unlease a monster ie islamic fundamentalism which is much worse than the PLO!! 
All religious fundamentalism is right wing reactionary bigotted whether it is Jewish ie Zionist, Hamas ie Muslim Brotherhood, or GWBush neocon christians in the US. 
Those of us who support human rights and real as opposed to sham democracy, must stand up and be counted. The spread of fundamentalisms is the biggest threat to world peace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Iam a Jew and am proud of my Jewish heritage, however, I do not support Zionism. Two wrongs do not make a right. The state of Israel is land stolen from the Palestinians who rightfully belong there. However, now it would be impossible to give it all back. But Palestinians should have the right to their own independent state and should be compensated for the lands that were lost. This is common sense justice. If you hand your land stolen wouldnt you want to fight back? thats normal. Palestinians are being made to suffer because of the Holocaust yet they did not have anything to do with it! The Germans did! Itis a moraql duty that international pressure should be put upon Israel over its genocidal policies towards the Palestinians. Its a moral duty that all Jews should stand up and be counted and show their actice opposition to such genocidal policies. I as a Jew see it as my religious duty to speak up against all wrongs. There are many Israelis who do not support their governments policies towards the Palestinians and risk their very lives in becoming human shileds, crossing the apartheid wall to get medical supplies to Plaestinian children. The Isreali&#8217;s initially but covertly helped Hamas because they thought it would divide the Palestinians and weaken the PLO but little did they realise, although they soon learnt,  that they were helping unlease a monster ie islamic fundamentalism which is much worse than the PLO!!<br />
All religious fundamentalism is right wing reactionary bigotted whether it is Jewish ie Zionist, Hamas ie Muslim Brotherhood, or GWBush neocon christians in the US.<br />
Those of us who support human rights and real as opposed to sham democracy, must stand up and be counted. The spread of fundamentalisms is the biggest threat to world peace.</p>
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		<title>By: Bristol Green</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/comment-page-2/#comment-260228</link>
		<dc:creator>Bristol Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 16:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/#comment-260228</guid>
		<description>http://www.bristolgreenparty.org.uk/nr/081126suspension.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.bristolgreenparty.org.uk/nr/081126suspension.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.bristolgreenparty.org.uk/nr/081126suspension.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bristol Green</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/comment-page-2/#comment-259043</link>
		<dc:creator>Bristol Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/#comment-259043</guid>
		<description>Just to say appropriate measures are going on as we speak and Gosling will be dealt with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to say appropriate measures are going on as we speak and Gosling will be dealt with.</p>
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		<title>By: modernitynblog</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/comment-page-2/#comment-250534</link>
		<dc:creator>modernitynblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 13:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/#comment-250534</guid>
		<description>Ms. Luxton,

Thanks for the reply.

let me put it another way,

IF Gosling had, hypothetically, stated that &lt;i&gt;&quot;Blacks cause crime&quot;&lt;/i&gt; or &lt;i&gt;&quot;immigration is the root of all problems&quot;&lt;/i&gt;, or that &lt;i&gt;&quot;women should be kept at home and not educated, just there to service man&quot;&lt;/i&gt; (along with other racist nonsense)

then you and other Greens would NOT hesitate or say &lt;i&gt;&quot;Likewise I don’t know if his material is racist (sexist) or not&quot;&lt;/i&gt; it would have been plain that it was and your Party would have acted quickly

and in the above hypothetical example, Gosling would be kicked out of the Greens before you could say &lt;i&gt;&quot;recycle&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

yet when it comes to &lt;b&gt;anti-Jewish racism&lt;/b&gt; there is some question, some puzzlement, some lack of understanding by otherwise educated people

had Gosling come out with unambiguous attacks on women, Blacks, the Irish, the Roma, etc there wouldn&#039;t be any delay, no excuses or questions, but as he chooses Jews, well, hmm..

and I just wonder why? 

why is there that indifference to anti-Jewish racism?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ms. Luxton,</p>
<p>Thanks for the reply.</p>
<p>let me put it another way,</p>
<p>IF Gosling had, hypothetically, stated that <i>&#8220;Blacks cause crime&#8221;</i> or <i>&#8220;immigration is the root of all problems&#8221;</i>, or that <i>&#8220;women should be kept at home and not educated, just there to service man&#8221;</i> (along with other racist nonsense)</p>
<p>then you and other Greens would NOT hesitate or say <i>&#8220;Likewise I don’t know if his material is racist (sexist) or not&#8221;</i> it would have been plain that it was and your Party would have acted quickly</p>
<p>and in the above hypothetical example, Gosling would be kicked out of the Greens before you could say <i>&#8220;recycle&#8221;</i></p>
<p>yet when it comes to <b>anti-Jewish racism</b> there is some question, some puzzlement, some lack of understanding by otherwise educated people</p>
<p>had Gosling come out with unambiguous attacks on women, Blacks, the Irish, the Roma, etc there wouldn&#8217;t be any delay, no excuses or questions, but as he chooses Jews, well, hmm..</p>
<p>and I just wonder why? </p>
<p>why is there that indifference to anti-Jewish racism?</p>
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		<title>By: Cllr Sue Luxton</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/comment-page-2/#comment-250498</link>
		<dc:creator>Cllr Sue Luxton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 12:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/#comment-250498</guid>
		<description>Hi modernityblog
I don&#039;t think it&#039;s slipped under the radar in that people read it and thought this isn&#039;t anti-semitic or whatever, just that either a) most of us in the party were blissfully unaware of either Tony Gosling or his website and b) that any member who did chance upon his website thought &#039;blimey, what a load of inaccessible drivel&#039; and didn&#039;t bother venturing further to actually read any of the stuff. We&#039;re a small party with a small number of overworked activists and a tiny paid staff - we just don&#039;t have the resources to monitor this kind of thing. However, now that it has been brought to the attention of the national executive, I hope that appropriate action will be taken.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi modernityblog<br />
I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s slipped under the radar in that people read it and thought this isn&#8217;t anti-semitic or whatever, just that either a) most of us in the party were blissfully unaware of either Tony Gosling or his website and b) that any member who did chance upon his website thought &#8216;blimey, what a load of inaccessible drivel&#8217; and didn&#8217;t bother venturing further to actually read any of the stuff. We&#8217;re a small party with a small number of overworked activists and a tiny paid staff &#8211; we just don&#8217;t have the resources to monitor this kind of thing. However, now that it has been brought to the attention of the national executive, I hope that appropriate action will be taken.</p>
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		<title>By: modernitynblog</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/comment-page-2/#comment-250213</link>
		<dc:creator>modernitynblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 22:23:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/#comment-250213</guid>
		<description>Ms Luxton wrote:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;I just took a look at his website for the first time and didn’t linger long - it’s pretty inaccessible and difficult to work out quite where he’s coming from. It just looked like a load of conspiracy theory nonsense to me, which I’ve got no time for, and pretty much anti- everything. Likewise I don’t know if his material is anti-semitic or not - I didn’t delve deep enough; it’s certainly gibberish though. I’ll happily leave whoever is dealing with any internal disciplinary procedure the dubious joy of ploughing through that!

I wasn’t ever questioning whether or not Gosling’s writing was anti-semitic, like I said I haven’t read it (and hadn’t previously even heard of the guy), I was just trying to work out what people found offensive and anti-semitic about the policy that was passed at Autumn Conference.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Ms. Luxton,

Thank you for your answers.

Please can you stand back for a moment and consider this paradox:

1.you can state with ABSOLUTE certainty that there is NO chance of any anti-Jewish racism entering the Green&#039;s attitude towards Israel

2. yet when presented with Gosling&#039;s web site you reply &lt;i&gt;&quot;Likewise &lt;b&gt;I don’t know if his material is anti-semitic or not&lt;/b&gt; - I didn’t delve deep enough; it’s certainly gibberish though.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Gosling&#039;s web site is to anti-Jewish racism what the Daily Star and Page 3 of The Sun are to sexism, it is dripping with anti-Jewish content, which brings up the question:

if educated people can&#039;t spot the content of such sites and the implications of it then you have to wonder WHY? and whether or not their judgments on these topics are objective, informed and sound?

I don&#039;t say that last bit in a nasty way, as I&#039;ll bet your views are fairly representative of many Greens, a raft of Guardian readers and a chunk of the chattering classes. 

That is, some forms of  anti-Jewish racism could be an inch from your collective noses and it simply would not register.

and I am left wondering WHY that is so? 

it is not lack of education or deficiency of history, but here is &lt;i&gt;something&lt;/i&gt; that impedes an understanding or sensitivity to &lt;i&gt;certain forms&lt;/i&gt; of anti-Jewish racism.

I am NOT, I must stress, accusing you of racism or anything close to that, I am NOT.

but your attitude (and I appreciate it was an honest sentiment on your part) shows a certain indifference, an insensitivity 

I am trying to comprehend WHY the educated white English middle classes have seemingly such a problem grasping the nature and motifs associated with modern anti-Jewish racism?  particularly when it comes from unexpected sources (not the Far Right)?

Ms. Luxton, why do you think that is so? 

I am sure that you and the Greens are familiar with sexism, anti-Black racism, anti-Irish, anti-Roma, etc undercurrents? 

if so, why does Gosling&#039;s material seem to slip under the Green radar?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ms Luxton wrote:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;I just took a look at his website for the first time and didn’t linger long &#8211; it’s pretty inaccessible and difficult to work out quite where he’s coming from. It just looked like a load of conspiracy theory nonsense to me, which I’ve got no time for, and pretty much anti- everything. Likewise I don’t know if his material is anti-semitic or not &#8211; I didn’t delve deep enough; it’s certainly gibberish though. I’ll happily leave whoever is dealing with any internal disciplinary procedure the dubious joy of ploughing through that!</p>
<p>I wasn’t ever questioning whether or not Gosling’s writing was anti-semitic, like I said I haven’t read it (and hadn’t previously even heard of the guy), I was just trying to work out what people found offensive and anti-semitic about the policy that was passed at Autumn Conference.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Ms. Luxton,</p>
<p>Thank you for your answers.</p>
<p>Please can you stand back for a moment and consider this paradox:</p>
<p>1.you can state with ABSOLUTE certainty that there is NO chance of any anti-Jewish racism entering the Green&#8217;s attitude towards Israel</p>
<p>2. yet when presented with Gosling&#8217;s web site you reply <i>&#8220;Likewise <b>I don’t know if his material is anti-semitic or not</b> &#8211; I didn’t delve deep enough; it’s certainly gibberish though.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Gosling&#8217;s web site is to anti-Jewish racism what the Daily Star and Page 3 of The Sun are to sexism, it is dripping with anti-Jewish content, which brings up the question:</p>
<p>if educated people can&#8217;t spot the content of such sites and the implications of it then you have to wonder WHY? and whether or not their judgments on these topics are objective, informed and sound?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t say that last bit in a nasty way, as I&#8217;ll bet your views are fairly representative of many Greens, a raft of Guardian readers and a chunk of the chattering classes. </p>
<p>That is, some forms of  anti-Jewish racism could be an inch from your collective noses and it simply would not register.</p>
<p>and I am left wondering WHY that is so? </p>
<p>it is not lack of education or deficiency of history, but here is <i>something</i> that impedes an understanding or sensitivity to <i>certain forms</i> of anti-Jewish racism.</p>
<p>I am NOT, I must stress, accusing you of racism or anything close to that, I am NOT.</p>
<p>but your attitude (and I appreciate it was an honest sentiment on your part) shows a certain indifference, an insensitivity </p>
<p>I am trying to comprehend WHY the educated white English middle classes have seemingly such a problem grasping the nature and motifs associated with modern anti-Jewish racism?  particularly when it comes from unexpected sources (not the Far Right)?</p>
<p>Ms. Luxton, why do you think that is so? </p>
<p>I am sure that you and the Greens are familiar with sexism, anti-Black racism, anti-Irish, anti-Roma, etc undercurrents? </p>
<p>if so, why does Gosling&#8217;s material seem to slip under the Green radar?</p>
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		<title>By: Trundlemaster</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/comment-page-2/#comment-250198</link>
		<dc:creator>Trundlemaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 21:51:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/#comment-250198</guid>
		<description>Nearly Oxfordian said:&quot;Good on you, Trundlemaster.&quot;

Thanks but maybe I should clarify.  I&#039;m not saying that there are no reasons to criticise Israel after all countries have problems or things that can be legitimately criticized but I was immediately suspicious of the language used in that policy.  However, the language used in the policy is far too close to that used by left wing antisemites and their allies.

This policy DOES no matter how much the Greens would deny it, target only Israel and says little if nothing about the activities of the other players in the regi on.  There are legitimate criticisms to make of Israel as there is of many of many other countries but there is a danger that organisations that do publicise legitimate criticisms of Israel are used by groups of an altogether more sinister nature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nearly Oxfordian said:&#8221;Good on you, Trundlemaster.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks but maybe I should clarify.  I&#8217;m not saying that there are no reasons to criticise Israel after all countries have problems or things that can be legitimately criticized but I was immediately suspicious of the language used in that policy.  However, the language used in the policy is far too close to that used by left wing antisemites and their allies.</p>
<p>This policy DOES no matter how much the Greens would deny it, target only Israel and says little if nothing about the activities of the other players in the regi on.  There are legitimate criticisms to make of Israel as there is of many of many other countries but there is a danger that organisations that do publicise legitimate criticisms of Israel are used by groups of an altogether more sinister nature.</p>
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		<title>By: Nearly Oxfordian</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/comment-page-2/#comment-250102</link>
		<dc:creator>Nearly Oxfordian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/#comment-250102</guid>
		<description>Good on you, Trundlemaster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good on you, Trundlemaster.</p>
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		<title>By: Nearly Oxfordian</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/comment-page-2/#comment-250101</link>
		<dc:creator>Nearly Oxfordian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/#comment-250101</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I’m not an expert in these things, so if Oxfam say farmers can’t get to their olive groves without fear of being shot at, or that water is being diverted to irrigate farms at the expense of villages getting access to drinking water, I tend to believe them, whatever country they are talking about, unless there is clear evidence to the contrary&lt;/i&gt;

Utter nonsense. Oxfam has a political agenda. It published outright lies about the situation in Gaza, for example, blaming Israel for anything and everything which was nothing to do with Israel. Believing them as the default option is ignorant beyond words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I’m not an expert in these things, so if Oxfam say farmers can’t get to their olive groves without fear of being shot at, or that water is being diverted to irrigate farms at the expense of villages getting access to drinking water, I tend to believe them, whatever country they are talking about, unless there is clear evidence to the contrary</i></p>
<p>Utter nonsense. Oxfam has a political agenda. It published outright lies about the situation in Gaza, for example, blaming Israel for anything and everything which was nothing to do with Israel. Believing them as the default option is ignorant beyond words.</p>
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		<title>By: Nearly Oxfordian</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/comment-page-2/#comment-250097</link>
		<dc:creator>Nearly Oxfordian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/10/31/10627/#comment-250097</guid>
		<description>Oh yes, and you completely ducked the point about the flagrant lies about Sharon. Now, I wonder why ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yes, and you completely ducked the point about the flagrant lies about Sharon. Now, I wonder why &#8230;</p>
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