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	<title>Comments on: Accord: A Challenge to Faith Schools</title>
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	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: Iftikhar</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/comment-page-3/#comment-223064</link>
		<dc:creator>Iftikhar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 13:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/#comment-223064</guid>
		<description>Muslim youths are angry, frustrated and extremist because they have been mis-educated and de-educated by the British schooling. Muslim children are confused because they are being educated in a wrong place at a wrong time in state schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers.  They face lots of problems of growing up in two distinctive cultural traditions and value systems, which may come into conflict over issues such as the role of women in the society, and adherence to religious and cultural traditions. The conflicting demands made by home and schools on behaviour, loyalties and obligations can be a source of psychological conflict and tension in Muslim youngsters. There are also the issues of racial prejudice and discrimination to deal with, in education and employment. They have been victim of racism and bullying in all walks of life. According to DCSF, 56% of Pakistanis and 54% of Bangladeshi children has been victims of bullies. The first wave of Muslim migrants were happy to send their children to state schools, thinking their children would get a much better education. Than little by little, the overt and covert discrimination in the system turned them off.  There are fifteen areas where Muslim parents find themselves offended by state schools. 

The right to education in one’s own comfort zone is a fundamental and inalienable human right that should be available to all people irrespective of their ethnicity or religious background. Schools do not belong to state, they belong to parents. It is the parents’ choice to have faith schools for their children. Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. There is no place for a non-Muslim teacher or a child in a Muslim school. There are hundreds of state schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be designated as Muslim community schools. An ICM Poll of British Muslims showed that nearly half wanted their children to attend Muslim schools. There are only 143 Muslim schools. A state funded Muslim school in Birmingham has 220 pupils and more than 1000 applicants chasing just 60. 

Majority of anti-Muslim stories are not about terrorism but about Muslim culture--the hijab, Muslim schools, family life and religiosity. Muslims in the west ought to be recognised as a western community, not as an alien culture.
Iftikhar Ahmad
www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Muslim youths are angry, frustrated and extremist because they have been mis-educated and de-educated by the British schooling. Muslim children are confused because they are being educated in a wrong place at a wrong time in state schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers.  They face lots of problems of growing up in two distinctive cultural traditions and value systems, which may come into conflict over issues such as the role of women in the society, and adherence to religious and cultural traditions. The conflicting demands made by home and schools on behaviour, loyalties and obligations can be a source of psychological conflict and tension in Muslim youngsters. There are also the issues of racial prejudice and discrimination to deal with, in education and employment. They have been victim of racism and bullying in all walks of life. According to DCSF, 56% of Pakistanis and 54% of Bangladeshi children has been victims of bullies. The first wave of Muslim migrants were happy to send their children to state schools, thinking their children would get a much better education. Than little by little, the overt and covert discrimination in the system turned them off.  There are fifteen areas where Muslim parents find themselves offended by state schools. </p>
<p>The right to education in one’s own comfort zone is a fundamental and inalienable human right that should be available to all people irrespective of their ethnicity or religious background. Schools do not belong to state, they belong to parents. It is the parents’ choice to have faith schools for their children. Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. There is no place for a non-Muslim teacher or a child in a Muslim school. There are hundreds of state schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be designated as Muslim community schools. An ICM Poll of British Muslims showed that nearly half wanted their children to attend Muslim schools. There are only 143 Muslim schools. A state funded Muslim school in Birmingham has 220 pupils and more than 1000 applicants chasing just 60. </p>
<p>Majority of anti-Muslim stories are not about terrorism but about Muslim culture&#8211;the hijab, Muslim schools, family life and religiosity. Muslims in the west ought to be recognised as a western community, not as an alien culture.<br />
Iftikhar Ahmad<br />
<a href="http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk</a></p>
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		<title>By: David Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/comment-page-3/#comment-222113</link>
		<dc:creator>David Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 16:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/#comment-222113</guid>
		<description>Oh, and on creationism, how many of you were Blair supporters? He handed over many state school pupils (though nowhere near as many as he wanted to) to academies run by creationists and teaching creationism, all at public expense. The other of the pair that brought us the Iraq War is a creationist. As, probably, is Blair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and on creationism, how many of you were Blair supporters? He handed over many state school pupils (though nowhere near as many as he wanted to) to academies run by creationists and teaching creationism, all at public expense. The other of the pair that brought us the Iraq War is a creationist. As, probably, is Blair.</p>
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		<title>By: David Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/comment-page-3/#comment-222108</link>
		<dc:creator>David Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 16:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/#comment-222108</guid>
		<description>We all know that the real objection to &quot;faith schools&quot; is that Catholic ones have been so good at, according to the old Christian Brothers&#039; maxim, &quot;taking the sons of dockers and turning them into doctors&quot;.

The professions, and thus the places where professional people live, now contain any number of people originally from Scotland, the North, the Midlands and the less salubrious parts of the South, with working-class grandparents or even parents, and with Irish great-grandparents.

Where will it all end?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We all know that the real objection to &#8220;faith schools&#8221; is that Catholic ones have been so good at, according to the old Christian Brothers&#8217; maxim, &#8220;taking the sons of dockers and turning them into doctors&#8221;.</p>
<p>The professions, and thus the places where professional people live, now contain any number of people originally from Scotland, the North, the Midlands and the less salubrious parts of the South, with working-class grandparents or even parents, and with Irish great-grandparents.</p>
<p>Where will it all end?</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Adams</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/comment-page-3/#comment-222105</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 16:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/#comment-222105</guid>
		<description>OK, thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, thanks</p>
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		<title>By: YossiUK</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/comment-page-3/#comment-222061</link>
		<dc:creator>YossiUK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 15:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/#comment-222061</guid>
		<description>Andrew Adams,

This issue of evolution is a complex one in this regard. As part of the national curriculum it is of course taught in many such schools. 

Many of those schools will then give the students a complimentary or in some cases an alternative view on the subject.

In any regard, there is no one view as to Judaism&#039;s view on evolution, and by and large the issue is not one of dogma.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew Adams,</p>
<p>This issue of evolution is a complex one in this regard. As part of the national curriculum it is of course taught in many such schools. </p>
<p>Many of those schools will then give the students a complimentary or in some cases an alternative view on the subject.</p>
<p>In any regard, there is no one view as to Judaism&#8217;s view on evolution, and by and large the issue is not one of dogma.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Adams</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/comment-page-3/#comment-222052</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 15:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/#comment-222052</guid>
		<description>Yossi, out of interest what would be the position on the teaching of evolution in the type of school you mention?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yossi, out of interest what would be the position on the teaching of evolution in the type of school you mention?</p>
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		<title>By: David T</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/comment-page-3/#comment-222035</link>
		<dc:creator>David T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 15:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/#comment-222035</guid>
		<description>Yossi

Well, it has been nice chatting with you. Thanks for taking the time, and stick around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yossi</p>
<p>Well, it has been nice chatting with you. Thanks for taking the time, and stick around.</p>
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		<title>By: ag</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/comment-page-3/#comment-222003</link>
		<dc:creator>ag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 14:27:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/#comment-222003</guid>
		<description>Dan, single sex schools patently work for lots of kids. There are differences between boys and girls that a co-ed school can&#039;t always accomodate well. It&#039;s also difficult to argue that single sex schools don&#039;t work or are wrong when over 75% of the best state schools (academically) are single sex. The percentage is even higher in the private sector.

As you are fond of anecdotal examples I&#039;ll give you one of mine.  My daughter goes to an all girls school. She and a couple of her classmates were selected to represent the school in a local enterprise event. There were about 25 schools at there; a couple of all girls schools, some all boys schools with the majority being mixed.  Each school had to make a presentation about their business idea and answer questions on it. Without exception at the mixed schools the presentations were led by a boy, the majority of the questions were answered by boys and in general girls had small, insignificant parts. This was so marked that a teacher at the table I was sitting at commented on it. This in and of itself proves nothing but it reinforces my belief that a lot of girls (not all by any means) flourish more and become more confident people in a single sex environment. 

The irony is that, with hindsight, my daughter would probably have been better off at a mixed sex school.

Bullying of course happens in all types of schools. I have no idea if it happens more in single sex schools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, single sex schools patently work for lots of kids. There are differences between boys and girls that a co-ed school can&#8217;t always accomodate well. It&#8217;s also difficult to argue that single sex schools don&#8217;t work or are wrong when over 75% of the best state schools (academically) are single sex. The percentage is even higher in the private sector.</p>
<p>As you are fond of anecdotal examples I&#8217;ll give you one of mine.  My daughter goes to an all girls school. She and a couple of her classmates were selected to represent the school in a local enterprise event. There were about 25 schools at there; a couple of all girls schools, some all boys schools with the majority being mixed.  Each school had to make a presentation about their business idea and answer questions on it. Without exception at the mixed schools the presentations were led by a boy, the majority of the questions were answered by boys and in general girls had small, insignificant parts. This was so marked that a teacher at the table I was sitting at commented on it. This in and of itself proves nothing but it reinforces my belief that a lot of girls (not all by any means) flourish more and become more confident people in a single sex environment. </p>
<p>The irony is that, with hindsight, my daughter would probably have been better off at a mixed sex school.</p>
<p>Bullying of course happens in all types of schools. I have no idea if it happens more in single sex schools.</p>
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		<title>By: YossiUK</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/comment-page-3/#comment-221997</link>
		<dc:creator>YossiUK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 14:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/#comment-221997</guid>
		<description>David T, perhaps you would have found such an education fun, but in all honesty, I think a school has the right to demand devotion, and commitment to the goals it sets. Fun just doesn&#039;t quite cut it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David T, perhaps you would have found such an education fun, but in all honesty, I think a school has the right to demand devotion, and commitment to the goals it sets. Fun just doesn&#8217;t quite cut it.</p>
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		<title>By: YossiUK</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/comment-page-3/#comment-221993</link>
		<dc:creator>YossiUK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 14:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/31/accord-a-challenge-to-faith-schools/#comment-221993</guid>
		<description>David T,

I agree that this type of education is not just interesting, but highly important, only to a very small number of Jews, and I have not advocated this for the entire country, and neither have I claimed that this is what goes on in faith schools up and down the country. 

Your account of the very successful ex-Hasids, is I&#039;m sure not an isolated case. And may I stress such education is not restricted to Hassidic children (who in any case tend to be taught in Yiddish), but can be found in non-hassidic orthodox schools too.

Different people require different things. I love the difference manifested in this great country of ours, and I have no problem at all, with our government assisting different people to educate their children in they way that they feel they require, (however odd or arcane it might seem to others :-) 

There is not much more I can add to this debate, but I hope that I have been successful in explaining my point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David T,</p>
<p>I agree that this type of education is not just interesting, but highly important, only to a very small number of Jews, and I have not advocated this for the entire country, and neither have I claimed that this is what goes on in faith schools up and down the country. </p>
<p>Your account of the very successful ex-Hasids, is I&#8217;m sure not an isolated case. And may I stress such education is not restricted to Hassidic children (who in any case tend to be taught in Yiddish), but can be found in non-hassidic orthodox schools too.</p>
<p>Different people require different things. I love the difference manifested in this great country of ours, and I have no problem at all, with our government assisting different people to educate their children in they way that they feel they require, (however odd or arcane it might seem to others :-) </p>
<p>There is not much more I can add to this debate, but I hope that I have been successful in explaining my point.</p>
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