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	<title>Comments on: UCU and the David Duke Link</title>
	<atom:link href="http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-link/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-link/</link>
	<description>Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don&#039;t want to hear</description>
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		<title>By: S. Deman</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-link/comment-page-8/#comment-248297</link>
		<dc:creator>S. Deman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-fan/#comment-248297</guid>
		<description>Dear Readers:

I am surprised that unreaonable attack has been lashed out at Jenna Delich who always champion the cause of downtrodden. It is nonsense to characterise anti Zionism as anti semite.  Zionist is a form of racism, which has clearly been defined by a well known Jewish Scholar, Prof. Noam Chomsky at MIT.  All Zionists are not Jewish and vice versa.  In fact, this matter popped up in the EAT in D&#039;Silva v UCU &amp; their Labour Party mafia where Dr D&#039;Silva&#039;s Counsel stated to Mr Justice Elias (who said he was not a Jewish) that his ethnic origin was irrelevant to be member of the Zionist mafia.   

I believe some self entangled racist idiots are engaged in Jenny Delich&#039;s lynching because she blowed the whislte.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Readers:</p>
<p>I am surprised that unreaonable attack has been lashed out at Jenna Delich who always champion the cause of downtrodden. It is nonsense to characterise anti Zionism as anti semite.  Zionist is a form of racism, which has clearly been defined by a well known Jewish Scholar, Prof. Noam Chomsky at MIT.  All Zionists are not Jewish and vice versa.  In fact, this matter popped up in the EAT in D&#8217;Silva v UCU &amp; their Labour Party mafia where Dr D&#8217;Silva&#8217;s Counsel stated to Mr Justice Elias (who said he was not a Jewish) that his ethnic origin was irrelevant to be member of the Zionist mafia.   </p>
<p>I believe some self entangled racist idiots are engaged in Jenny Delich&#8217;s lynching because she blowed the whislte.</p>
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		<title>By: S. Deman</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-link/comment-page-8/#comment-248296</link>
		<dc:creator>S. Deman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-fan/#comment-248296</guid>
		<description>Dear Readers:

I am surprised that unreaonable attack has been lashed out at Jenna Delich who always champion the cause of downtrodden. It is nonsense to characterise anti Zionism as anti semite.  Zionist is a form of racism, which has clearly been defined by a well known Jewish Scholar, Prof. Noam Chomsky at MIT.  All Zionists are not Jewish and vice versa.  In fact, this matter popped up in the EAT in D&#039;Silva v UCU &amp; their Labour Party mafia where Dr D&#039;Silva&#039;s Counsel stated to Mr Justice Elias (who said he was not a Jeiwsh) that his ethnic origin was irrelevant to be member of the Zionist mafia.   

I believe some self entangled racist idiots are engaged in Jenny Delich &#039;s lynching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Readers:</p>
<p>I am surprised that unreaonable attack has been lashed out at Jenna Delich who always champion the cause of downtrodden. It is nonsense to characterise anti Zionism as anti semite.  Zionist is a form of racism, which has clearly been defined by a well known Jewish Scholar, Prof. Noam Chomsky at MIT.  All Zionists are not Jewish and vice versa.  In fact, this matter popped up in the EAT in D&#8217;Silva v UCU &amp; their Labour Party mafia where Dr D&#8217;Silva&#8217;s Counsel stated to Mr Justice Elias (who said he was not a Jeiwsh) that his ethnic origin was irrelevant to be member of the Zionist mafia.   </p>
<p>I believe some self entangled racist idiots are engaged in Jenny Delich &#8217;s lynching.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-link/comment-page-8/#comment-222033</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 15:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-fan/#comment-222033</guid>
		<description>Roger? Not me, but if he is someone who thinks like me, introduce us!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger? Not me, but if he is someone who thinks like me, introduce us!</p>
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		<title>By: ct</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-link/comment-page-8/#comment-221917</link>
		<dc:creator>ct</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 12:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-fan/#comment-221917</guid>
		<description>Hi again Roger,
You&#039;re probably right: We are the only ones left reading this thread, but I wanted to add a last comment before we move along.
There are certainly those who use anti-zionism as a &quot;protective cover&quot; for expressing antisemitism, and this is certainly the case for the European and U.S. far-Right, as well as some Islamists.
But Left antisemitism is more an antisemitism not aware of itself as such. An antisemitism that functions despite the best intentions and the self-perceptions of those who express it. (Despite their intentions, as a friend of mine wrote, to be a &quot;non-antisemitic anti-zionist.&quot;)
Regarding Left antisemitism, I don&#039;t think it is a matter of trying to uncover an intentionality. I believe that most of the time leftists don&#039;t mean to be antisemitic. We don&#039;t intend to perpetuate patriarchal ways of acting and thinking either, but yet we do, &lt;em&gt;despite our best intentions&lt;/em&gt;. The task is not a matter of unmasking a disguised intentionality, but rather, of unmasking how antisemitic worldviews are perpetuated through contemporary discourses. To do so, I think it helps to do the historical research (such as the Polish case of the &quot;anti-zionist campaign&quot;), in order to see how antisemitism is perpetuated through varying discourses and circumstances. I think it will help move the discussions forward.
Thanks for the exchange Roger, and see you around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi again Roger,<br />
You&#8217;re probably right: We are the only ones left reading this thread, but I wanted to add a last comment before we move along.<br />
There are certainly those who use anti-zionism as a &#8220;protective cover&#8221; for expressing antisemitism, and this is certainly the case for the European and U.S. far-Right, as well as some Islamists.<br />
But Left antisemitism is more an antisemitism not aware of itself as such. An antisemitism that functions despite the best intentions and the self-perceptions of those who express it. (Despite their intentions, as a friend of mine wrote, to be a &#8220;non-antisemitic anti-zionist.&#8221;)<br />
Regarding Left antisemitism, I don&#8217;t think it is a matter of trying to uncover an intentionality. I believe that most of the time leftists don&#8217;t mean to be antisemitic. We don&#8217;t intend to perpetuate patriarchal ways of acting and thinking either, but yet we do, <em>despite our best intentions</em>. The task is not a matter of unmasking a disguised intentionality, but rather, of unmasking how antisemitic worldviews are perpetuated through contemporary discourses. To do so, I think it helps to do the historical research (such as the Polish case of the &#8220;anti-zionist campaign&#8221;), in order to see how antisemitism is perpetuated through varying discourses and circumstances. I think it will help move the discussions forward.<br />
Thanks for the exchange Roger, and see you around.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug1943</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-link/comment-page-8/#comment-221582</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug1943</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-fan/#comment-221582</guid>
		<description>CT: I don&#039;t disagree (I think!) with anything you have said. I am sure that among some of the American paleoconservatives, and probably even more so among their European counterparts (although I am not very familiar with them), &quot;anti-Zionism&quot; is blended smoothly with the kind of genuine anti-Semitism which has, since 1945, become off-limits for civilized people. And I am morally certain that the protective cover was discovered early on among Russian and East European bureaucrats. I just don&#039;t think this has much to do with the anti-Zionism of the Far Left.

I also believe that an ideological offensive against the anti-Zionism of the Far Left which reduces to accusing them of anti-Semitism is firing blank shots, at best. They know they are not anti-Semitic, and I believe that most observers who are outside the immediate debate will also conclude that they are not anti-Semitic. In fact, I suspect that the sort of naive, unarticulated, reflexive anti-Semitism which used to be quite widespread (in the US, at least) could still be found among those fundamentalist Christians who, for the moment, are cheerleaders for Israeli nationalism.

Rather, I think these people need to be challenged on their overall political understanding of history, past and present, which is a cartoon view of reality, with &quot;bad peoples&quot; and &quot;good peoples&quot;. In the words of I.F. Stone, they see history as melodrama, when in fact it is tragedy. But that is a much bigger question which we, perhaps, debate or discuss elsewhere. (I think just you and I are reading this thread now.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CT: I don&#8217;t disagree (I think!) with anything you have said. I am sure that among some of the American paleoconservatives, and probably even more so among their European counterparts (although I am not very familiar with them), &#8220;anti-Zionism&#8221; is blended smoothly with the kind of genuine anti-Semitism which has, since 1945, become off-limits for civilized people. And I am morally certain that the protective cover was discovered early on among Russian and East European bureaucrats. I just don&#8217;t think this has much to do with the anti-Zionism of the Far Left.</p>
<p>I also believe that an ideological offensive against the anti-Zionism of the Far Left which reduces to accusing them of anti-Semitism is firing blank shots, at best. They know they are not anti-Semitic, and I believe that most observers who are outside the immediate debate will also conclude that they are not anti-Semitic. In fact, I suspect that the sort of naive, unarticulated, reflexive anti-Semitism which used to be quite widespread (in the US, at least) could still be found among those fundamentalist Christians who, for the moment, are cheerleaders for Israeli nationalism.</p>
<p>Rather, I think these people need to be challenged on their overall political understanding of history, past and present, which is a cartoon view of reality, with &#8220;bad peoples&#8221; and &#8220;good peoples&#8221;. In the words of I.F. Stone, they see history as melodrama, when in fact it is tragedy. But that is a much bigger question which we, perhaps, debate or discuss elsewhere. (I think just you and I are reading this thread now.)</p>
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		<title>By: ct</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-link/comment-page-8/#comment-221571</link>
		<dc:creator>ct</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-fan/#comment-221571</guid>
		<description>Doug,
I was bringing up the example of the Polish &quot;anti-zionist campaign&quot; of 1967/68 in an attempt to clarify the discussion of antizionism by analyzing an historical example. While this example is not the end-all-be-all of the issue, it seems to me that it is critically important because it represents a practical example in which an &quot;anti-zionist campaign&quot; meant widespread antisemitic persecution.
I don&#039;t doubt that simplistic anti-West resentments inform worldviews. I agree. In fact, antizionism is a perfect example of anti-West resentments. But I don&#039;t think antizionism can be reduced to it, as one specific form of thought based on the more general one. Antizionism is much more complex than that. It has its historical specificity. It&#039;s broad success as becoming a political worldview that transcends political categories (left, right, center), arises suspiciously where explicit antisemitic skapegoating reaches its limits, that is, after the Shoah.
It is possible that the antizionist worldviews becomes widely accepted exactly at the historical point where antisemitism reaches its limits. It is a deranged way of understanding world politics, political power, 20th century historical development, media, transnationalism, and so forth. And it was extremely useful in the power struggles between various sections of Polish political factions, which is known as &quot;the anti-zionist campaign.&quot;
Antizionism is also not limited the the far Right, and the far Left. It is a convenient worldview for many people who want a simple &quot;explanation&quot; for &quot;understanding&quot; Middle East politics or U.S. foreign policy. Blame it on the &quot;zionist lobby.&quot; These expressions are then not &quot;anti-Europe&quot; as you were arguing (nor anti-American). They&#039;re often American conservatives who think that the U.S. is ruled by Israel or some other nonsense. They&#039;re actually hyper supportive of &quot;the West&quot; (or at least, of &quot;the West&quot; that they imagine).
But I don&#039;t think it helps to play thought experiments in trying to understand antizionism. I think it&#039;s much more helpful to explore the history and historical development of the phenomenon. That&#039;s why I was suggesting looking at the Polish &quot;anti-zionist campaign.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug,<br />
I was bringing up the example of the Polish &#8220;anti-zionist campaign&#8221; of 1967/68 in an attempt to clarify the discussion of antizionism by analyzing an historical example. While this example is not the end-all-be-all of the issue, it seems to me that it is critically important because it represents a practical example in which an &#8220;anti-zionist campaign&#8221; meant widespread antisemitic persecution.<br />
I don&#8217;t doubt that simplistic anti-West resentments inform worldviews. I agree. In fact, antizionism is a perfect example of anti-West resentments. But I don&#8217;t think antizionism can be reduced to it, as one specific form of thought based on the more general one. Antizionism is much more complex than that. It has its historical specificity. It&#8217;s broad success as becoming a political worldview that transcends political categories (left, right, center), arises suspiciously where explicit antisemitic skapegoating reaches its limits, that is, after the Shoah.<br />
It is possible that the antizionist worldviews becomes widely accepted exactly at the historical point where antisemitism reaches its limits. It is a deranged way of understanding world politics, political power, 20th century historical development, media, transnationalism, and so forth. And it was extremely useful in the power struggles between various sections of Polish political factions, which is known as &#8220;the anti-zionist campaign.&#8221;<br />
Antizionism is also not limited the the far Right, and the far Left. It is a convenient worldview for many people who want a simple &#8220;explanation&#8221; for &#8220;understanding&#8221; Middle East politics or U.S. foreign policy. Blame it on the &#8220;zionist lobby.&#8221; These expressions are then not &#8220;anti-Europe&#8221; as you were arguing (nor anti-American). They&#8217;re often American conservatives who think that the U.S. is ruled by Israel or some other nonsense. They&#8217;re actually hyper supportive of &#8220;the West&#8221; (or at least, of &#8220;the West&#8221; that they imagine).<br />
But I don&#8217;t think it helps to play thought experiments in trying to understand antizionism. I think it&#8217;s much more helpful to explore the history and historical development of the phenomenon. That&#8217;s why I was suggesting looking at the Polish &#8220;anti-zionist campaign.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Doug1943</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-link/comment-page-8/#comment-221520</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug1943</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-fan/#comment-221520</guid>
		<description>All sorts of political tendencies use &quot;anti-Zionism&quot; as a cover for anti-Semitism. Certainly, Stalinist officialdom did this. And the more intelligent &quot;pure&quot; anti-Semites today do it. 

But the Far Left is not doing it. They are anti-Zionist for the same reason, and in the same way, that they were anti-Boer, anti-pednoir, anti-European settler in general. If the majority ethnic group in Israel were Poles or Czechs or Italians, it would change nothing in the Far Left&#039;s analysis or behavior, whereas genuine anti-Semites would either be indifferent to the issue, or in favor of the European-derived side.

Of course, in their analysis of the situation, they distort much. They overlook the large number of Jews of Middle-Eastern origin who fled to Israel after its establishment, for example. But this is not because they are anti-Semitic, but because their worldview demands that complex realities be turned into simplistic ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All sorts of political tendencies use &#8220;anti-Zionism&#8221; as a cover for anti-Semitism. Certainly, Stalinist officialdom did this. And the more intelligent &#8220;pure&#8221; anti-Semites today do it. </p>
<p>But the Far Left is not doing it. They are anti-Zionist for the same reason, and in the same way, that they were anti-Boer, anti-pednoir, anti-European settler in general. If the majority ethnic group in Israel were Poles or Czechs or Italians, it would change nothing in the Far Left&#8217;s analysis or behavior, whereas genuine anti-Semites would either be indifferent to the issue, or in favor of the European-derived side.</p>
<p>Of course, in their analysis of the situation, they distort much. They overlook the large number of Jews of Middle-Eastern origin who fled to Israel after its establishment, for example. But this is not because they are anti-Semitic, but because their worldview demands that complex realities be turned into simplistic ones.</p>
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		<title>By: ct</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-link/comment-page-8/#comment-221046</link>
		<dc:creator>ct</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 08:10:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-fan/#comment-221046</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think it clarifies anything to switch to an analysis of &quot;the Far Left&quot; because the example of the Polish anti-zionist campaign is an example of populist politics of Stalinist ideology, egged on by hyper nationalist groups seeking power, and accepted broadly amongst the population. That is, it had nothing to do with &quot;the Far Left,&quot; of which Stalinism sought to destroy. The issue is antizionism, which stretches across the political spectrum, and is used by all sorts of political players to serve their own ends. At the same time, it is not under their control. And it wasn&#039;t only persecution of Jews. Antizionism was a way of destroying the student movement and critique of the regime. It was a way by the regime of using/producing nationalist sentiment to stabilize itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it clarifies anything to switch to an analysis of &#8220;the Far Left&#8221; because the example of the Polish anti-zionist campaign is an example of populist politics of Stalinist ideology, egged on by hyper nationalist groups seeking power, and accepted broadly amongst the population. That is, it had nothing to do with &#8220;the Far Left,&#8221; of which Stalinism sought to destroy. The issue is antizionism, which stretches across the political spectrum, and is used by all sorts of political players to serve their own ends. At the same time, it is not under their control. And it wasn&#8217;t only persecution of Jews. Antizionism was a way of destroying the student movement and critique of the regime. It was a way by the regime of using/producing nationalist sentiment to stabilize itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-link/comment-page-8/#comment-220792</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-fan/#comment-220792</guid>
		<description>The Far Left is not anti-Semitic. It is anti-European. 

That is, in any situation involving a clash of interests between a European people and a Third World people, the Left reflexively take the side of the Third World people. Israeli Jews are a sub-set of European peoples and thus, in their clash with Palestinians, are automatically condemned by the Far Left.

The Far Left assimilate all such clashes to the imperialist-colonialist model. They side with those who are, as they see it, the imperialized and colonized.

To see why it is wrong to say that the Far Left is anti-Semitic, it suffices to do this little thought experiment. Suppose Israel had been settled by some other European people -- Croats, or Latvians, or Spaniards, say -- with the same set of events taking place as occured with the establishment of Israel. The attitude of the Far Left would be identical to their attitude towards Israeli Jews. We need not even experiment: this was the attitude the Far Left took to Dutch and French and Belgian and English settlers in Africa.

Looking outside of Israel, we would find, if the Far Left were really anti-Semitic, that they would be pandering to the &quot;socialism of fools&quot; which sees the problems of capitalism as due to Jewish finance capital. (I believe some of the early Socialist-Revolutionaries in Czarist Russia did just that, in their work among the peasantry.) But we do not find this.

There is much that is wrong with the outlook of the Far Left on this issue (as on many others). The Oppressed/Oppressor framework is a gross over-simplification of reality. It cannot handle ethnic clashes where both groups are non-European (for example, the Chinese in Southeast Asia, and other market-dominant ethnic minorities), or the myriad clashes among different tribes in Africa, which self-congratulatory leftwing moralists cannot fit into an &quot;anti-imperialist&quot; worldview. This is why the Left tends to avert its eyes from these ugly realities. 

On many issues, the Far Left is in fact reactionary today. But it is not anti-Semitic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Far Left is not anti-Semitic. It is anti-European. </p>
<p>That is, in any situation involving a clash of interests between a European people and a Third World people, the Left reflexively take the side of the Third World people. Israeli Jews are a sub-set of European peoples and thus, in their clash with Palestinians, are automatically condemned by the Far Left.</p>
<p>The Far Left assimilate all such clashes to the imperialist-colonialist model. They side with those who are, as they see it, the imperialized and colonized.</p>
<p>To see why it is wrong to say that the Far Left is anti-Semitic, it suffices to do this little thought experiment. Suppose Israel had been settled by some other European people &#8212; Croats, or Latvians, or Spaniards, say &#8212; with the same set of events taking place as occured with the establishment of Israel. The attitude of the Far Left would be identical to their attitude towards Israeli Jews. We need not even experiment: this was the attitude the Far Left took to Dutch and French and Belgian and English settlers in Africa.</p>
<p>Looking outside of Israel, we would find, if the Far Left were really anti-Semitic, that they would be pandering to the &#8220;socialism of fools&#8221; which sees the problems of capitalism as due to Jewish finance capital. (I believe some of the early Socialist-Revolutionaries in Czarist Russia did just that, in their work among the peasantry.) But we do not find this.</p>
<p>There is much that is wrong with the outlook of the Far Left on this issue (as on many others). The Oppressed/Oppressor framework is a gross over-simplification of reality. It cannot handle ethnic clashes where both groups are non-European (for example, the Chinese in Southeast Asia, and other market-dominant ethnic minorities), or the myriad clashes among different tribes in Africa, which self-congratulatory leftwing moralists cannot fit into an &#8220;anti-imperialist&#8221; worldview. This is why the Left tends to avert its eyes from these ugly realities. </p>
<p>On many issues, the Far Left is in fact reactionary today. But it is not anti-Semitic.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim B</title>
		<link>http://hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-link/comment-page-8/#comment-220578</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/22/ucu-and-the-david-duke-fan/#comment-220578</guid>
		<description>So Diarmuid Fogarty was the person who complained to the ISP?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Diarmuid Fogarty was the person who complained to the ISP?</p>
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