Comments on: “Is the burqa incompatible with French citizenship?” http://hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/ Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear Thu, 24 May 2012 03:10:04 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Umm Rashidah http://hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/comment-page-5/#comment-206488 Umm Rashidah Wed, 16 Jul 2008 09:19:33 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/#comment-206488 The citizenship exam does have a value for anyone someone with a weak/ non-existant grasp of the language. Learning the local language is always a good thing . It makes you more effective in social situations. It doesn't however in my opinion, make you a better person. The citizenship exam does have a value for anyone someone with a weak/ non-existant grasp of the language. Learning the local language is always a good thing . It makes you more effective in social situations. It doesn’t however in my opinion, make you a better person.

]]> By: Umm Rashidah http://hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/comment-page-5/#comment-206467 Umm Rashidah Wed, 16 Jul 2008 08:34:42 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/#comment-206467 Good morning! If being 'reclusive' qualifies you to be denied citizenship anywhere in this world, then I guess I have to be included with her, My life inovolves basically 'to and from work', 'necessary shopping,' 'housework', 'necessary classes', occasional essesntial visits e.g births, marriages, funerals, sick people, or greeting freinds relatives I haven't seen for a while. I've been like that in Europe and in my country of birth. (It may sound like a strange lifestyle for many, but I find I have little time for anything else, and it keeps me sane and focused) I believe what could be used as a proof against me is whether my social conduct could be proved to be illegal. I have yet to learn where a lack of/ or little social contact is illegal or unacceptable. This discussion could go on for ages, I guess unless we know what the French governmenet is asking of her and what she is failling to do, we won't be in a position to judge. Did she fail the citizenship test etc? Is there one? Can she retake? I sat a citizenship exam, and passed. I can hardly remember anything that I studied (except probably some fact about needing X number of signatories if you wanted to stand for office etc). It didn't change me as a person, it didn't make me more European, and it would not prevent me from criminal/anti-social behaviour if I was already inclined that way. It took me 4 minuets to do, tick, tick, tick. Any criminal could pass it. Maybe theres more to the story. Good morning!
If being ‘reclusive’ qualifies you to be denied citizenship anywhere in this world, then I guess I have to be included with her, My life inovolves basically ‘to and from work’, ‘necessary shopping,’ ‘housework’, ‘necessary classes’, occasional essesntial visits e.g births, marriages, funerals, sick people, or greeting freinds relatives I haven’t seen for a while. I’ve been like that in Europe and in my country of birth. (It may sound like a strange lifestyle for many, but I find I have little time for anything else, and it keeps me sane and focused)

I believe what could be used as a proof against me is whether my social conduct could be proved to be illegal.

I have yet to learn where a lack of/ or little social contact is illegal or unacceptable.

This discussion could go on for ages, I guess unless we know what the French governmenet is asking of her and what she is failling to do, we won’t be in a position to judge. Did she fail the citizenship test etc? Is there one? Can she retake?

I sat a citizenship exam, and passed. I can hardly remember anything
that I studied (except probably some fact about needing X number of signatories if you wanted to stand for office etc).

It didn’t change me as a person, it didn’t make me more European, and it would not prevent me from criminal/anti-social behaviour if I was already inclined that way. It took me 4 minuets to do, tick, tick, tick. Any criminal could pass it.

Maybe theres more to the story.

]]> By: Fabian from Israel http://hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/comment-page-5/#comment-206304 Fabian from Israel Tue, 15 Jul 2008 19:28:20 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/#comment-206304 "But I can bet my botton dollar that if I got to know her, I could well find that she is patient, generous, kind etc. But I guess that does not count for anything these days." The issue is exactly that I, or any men, and most women, will never get to know her. Because she is willingly shunning any contact with the rest of society, or her "male guardians" are dissuading her from it. “But I can bet my botton dollar that if I got to know her, I could well find that she is patient, generous, kind etc. But I guess that does not count for anything these days.”

The issue is exactly that I, or any men, and most women, will never get to know her.
Because she is willingly shunning any contact with the rest of society, or her “male guardians” are dissuading her from it.

]]> By: Sue R http://hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/comment-page-5/#comment-206300 Sue R Tue, 15 Jul 2008 19:17:11 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/#comment-206300 Umm Raschid: If you are still reading this, why do you have to counterpose such an extreme scenario? Ofcourse she doesn't have to eat frogs' legs or drink red wine or wear shortsleeved dresses to be a French citizen. In my opinion, she merely needs to support the aims of teh French Revolution of 'Liberty, Equality and Fraternity'. I expect you will say that she does, it's just that her sort of liberty, equality and fraternity is different. That's you opinion and of course you are entitled to hold it. Umm Raschid: If you are still reading this, why do you have to counterpose such an extreme scenario? Ofcourse she doesn’t have to eat frogs’ legs or drink red wine or wear shortsleeved dresses to be a French citizen. In my opinion, she merely needs to support the aims of teh French Revolution of ‘Liberty, Equality and Fraternity’. I expect you will say that she does, it’s just that her sort of liberty, equality and fraternity is different. That’s you opinion and of course you are entitled to hold it.

]]> By: Umm Rashidah http://hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/comment-page-5/#comment-206248 Umm Rashidah Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:38:45 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/#comment-206248 Sue, I'm logging off now, it was nice posting with you. You did not insult my intelligence or swear (even though I am a burqa wearing lady). May continue tomorrow. with love Sue, I’m logging off now, it was nice posting with you. You did not insult my intelligence or swear (even though I am a burqa wearing lady). May continue tomorrow.

with love

]]> By: Umm Rashidah http://hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/comment-page-5/#comment-206243 Umm Rashidah Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:33:48 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/#comment-206243 Don't get me wrong, I'm not fighting for her right to French citizenship. Hopefully she will realise that her happiness and survival in this world is not dependant on it. She is a wife, a mum, a freind, a daughter, a human being and and how she carries out these roles will define her. The same goes for any man. He is a husband, a father , a freind, a son, a human being etc. Thats what we all are. If she divorced her husband, bought some jeans, drank red wine, ate frogs legs, and was the life and soul of every party, would she then be given citizenship? Probably yes. Would that make her happy? I don't know. I know it would make me (burqa wearing lady) very sad. with love Don’t get me wrong, I’m not fighting for her right to French citizenship. Hopefully she will realise that her happiness and survival in this world is not dependant on it. She is a wife, a mum, a freind, a daughter, a human being and and how she carries out these roles will define her. The same goes for any man. He is a husband, a father , a freind, a son, a human being etc. Thats what we all are.

If she divorced her husband, bought some jeans, drank red wine, ate frogs legs, and was the life and soul of every party, would she then be given citizenship? Probably yes. Would that make her happy? I don’t know. I know it would make me (burqa wearing lady) very sad.

with love

]]> By: M o r g o t h http://hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/comment-page-5/#comment-206234 M o r g o t h Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:24:35 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/#comment-206234 <i>It is mistaken to believe that most women who wear burqa/hijab/jilbaab are ‘oppressed’ and doing so only on the command of their husbands/parents etc. Some are. But not most.</I> They're mentally ill retards who have been brainwashed into thinking that every single man is an uncontrollable ragepot of hormones who will ravage them there and then if he sees so much as a nostril. How the fuck isn't that utterly depraved and sick? It is mistaken to believe that most women who wear burqa/hijab/jilbaab are ‘oppressed’ and doing so only on the command of their husbands/parents etc. Some are. But not most.

They’re mentally ill retards who have been brainwashed into thinking that every single man is an uncontrollable ragepot of hormones who will ravage them there and then if he sees so much as a nostril.

How the fuck isn’t that utterly depraved and sick?

]]> By: Umm Rashidah http://hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/comment-page-5/#comment-206233 Umm Rashidah Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:20:19 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/#comment-206233 Thank you for your concern, I don't find your ideas alienating at all, I'm used to them, they are quite widespread. If Faiza is 'equal' to all other people as we claim, why don't we want her as our neighbour. I read: 'all people who look like us, speak like us, agree with us in everything' are equal to us. This is the truth as I find it. with love Thank you for your concern, I don’t find your ideas alienating at all, I’m used to them, they are quite widespread.

If Faiza is ‘equal’ to all other people as we claim, why don’t we want her as our neighbour.

I read: ‘all people who look like us, speak like us, agree with us in everything’ are equal to us. This is the truth as I find it.

with love

]]> By: Sue R http://hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/comment-page-5/#comment-206228 Sue R Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:11:00 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/#comment-206228 Yes, and that is why in the 70s feminism was a big deal in Europe and America and why Equal Rights legislation was introduced. I think though you will find that any European woman will agree that all people are equal and that slave ownership is a bad thing. I hope you do not find this alienating but I have to speak as I find. Yes, and that is why in the 70s feminism was a big deal in Europe and America and why Equal Rights legislation was introduced. I think though you will find that any European woman will agree that all people are equal and that slave ownership is a bad thing. I hope you do not find this alienating but I have to speak as I find.

]]> By: Umm Rashidah http://hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/comment-page-5/#comment-206185 Umm Rashidah Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:55:00 +0000 http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/07/12/is-the-burqa-incompatible-with-french-citizenship/#comment-206185 If there is 'solid proof', not conjecture or guess work, that a stay at home mum who wears the burqa and listens to her husband (as long as he has not advised her to commit a crime) has no contribution to make to society, or has no right to live in ANY society, I will willingly and submissively accept your case. I agree with you on one point however: a community of peolple has the right to decide who they choose to live with. But they should at least be truthful and give the real reasons for the decision, and not try to shift the blame 'the other'. I can show you many a submissive European woman! still with love If there is ’solid proof’, not conjecture or guess work, that a stay at home mum who wears the burqa and listens to her husband (as long as he has not advised her to commit a crime) has no contribution to make to society, or has no right to live in ANY society, I will willingly and submissively accept your case.

I agree with you on one point however: a community of peolple has the right to decide who they choose to live with. But they should at least be truthful and give the real reasons for the decision, and not try to shift the blame ‘the other’. I can show you many a submissive European woman!

still with love

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