Harry's Place

I’m not sure how long Galloway has to cosy up to the Iranian leadership. It looks like Iraq is bringing charges in the US against individuals and companies who corrupted the oil-for-food scheme.

I’ll bet a friendly wager Galloway is on the charge list.

The CNN website reports on a story in ‘The New Yorker’ by Seymour Hersch, that America is preparing for war against Iran. The Iranians are apparently preparing 320,000 graves for dead soldiers, as under the law of war dead soldiers have to be buried properly. Surely, after being tied down in Afghanistan and Iraq, the American Government wouldn’t want to repeat that mistake? Where are they going to get teh extra troops from anyway?

Sue R:

I don’t think there’s any serious prospect of land invasion. I think what is being discussed is, at most, air strikes and special operations.

And even then I imagine, if it comes to the use of force, the dirty work will be left to the Israelis.

There is no need for the Yanks to do anything. Israel will take care of Iran when they feel the Iranians have reached the point of no return on the nuclear front.

Bomb bomb Bomb iran!

“to claim that Gordon Brown had to going to call an early election”?

…when they feel the Iranians have reached the point of no return on the nuclear front.

What is ‘the point of no return’ that is referred to here and elsewhere? Is it the point where Iran will have developed nuclear weapons to such a state that an attack on Iran won’t prevent if from making the weapon? Or is it something else?

I thought The Real Deal was presented by David Dickinson.

Seymour Hersh’s reporting on Iran has evolved somewhat. He was predicting an invasion a few years ago.

His latest piece – picked up widely elsewhere – is that millions are being spent on stepping up covert operations to destablise the Iranian regime, including the use of special forces inside Iran. (The US govt denies it, which they would do if it were true as well as, obviously, if it wasn’t).

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/07/080707fa_fact_hersh/

Which pretty much suggests a military operation has been ruled out, though some in the Bush administration haven’t abandoned the idea.

This is what makes me laugh when Galloway says ‘I don’t even like the present Iranian leadership ‘

But he has two programmes on Press TV, who does he think funds and runs Press TV? Its like claiming I don’t like the Burmese Leadership but have two programmes on a Burmese junta funded television station for propaganda purposes outside Burma!

and ‘Hope Larijani’ will be the next president. Galloway wants to imply to his readership that the ‘Iranian Leadership’ – which he really doesn’t like that much – is Ahmadi-Nejad!!!! and if Larijani, who has been one of the main pillars of the regime in the last 3 decades becomes the next president, everything will be honky dory. We don’t want an attack on Iran but its best if charlatans like Galloway don’t get involved.

Having said all this I don’t think Galloway is what he makes out to be. I believe he is part of what the UK government likes to refer to as ‘Track 2 diplomacy’ and is going to Iran to convey a message to the ‘Iranian Leadership’.

Galloway goes onto say this in his article “Next week’s column, should I survive, will no doubt tell you about the great civilisation that is Persia, which hasn’t attacked another country for more than 300 years, not a boast we can make ourselves. ” Does GG have a selective memory of the period from 1980-88?

This paragraph: “Iran is no broken-backed land enfeebled by decades of war and sanctions. If attacked, she most certainly will defend herself and by all means necessary. ” reminds me of a speech Galloway used to make before the invasion of Iraq where he predicted that Saddams royal guard of elite forces would be strong enough to repel all invaders and protect the greater leader ‘for as long as necessary’.

Galloway seems to just make it up rhetoric as he goes along. Stories about an imminent invasion of Iran have been doing the rounds for years anyway.

I sincerely hope that Israel does not bomb Iran and I can’t see what they would gain by it, despite what the idiot ant-imperialists claim, Israel has never acted as a US agent in the middle east so why would it start now?

“

“But the Sunday papers were again full of Israeli war games”

Don’t know what paper the gorgeous one reads but mine (“Sunday Times”) had an article about (further) threats against Israel by Tehran.

Poor old Mugabe. If only he were a muslim he too could secure Galloway’s services.

Greg,

I think the point of no return is when Israeli intelligence is reasonably sure that Iran are within 6 months of a nuke. It matters not a jot what the Yanks think or anyone else for that matter. Its an existential threat for israel – not anyone else.

Tim,

You are a repugnant human being. Galloway’s efforts to prevent another war in the Middle East are exemplary.

You are a little piece of shit and definitely in need of therapy.

Or maybe you just need a hug.

Thanks John.
From an outspoken anti semite,surfer of racist websites such as yourself

http://www.engageonline.org.uk/blog/article.php?id=1627

i’ll take it as a compliment.

How does George taking cash from Iran and making up smears about executed gay men help prevent a war?

Martin, you say – ‘the great civilisation that is Persia, which hasn’t attacked another country for more than 300 years, not a boast we can make ourselves. ” Does GG have a selective memory of the period from 1980-88?’ . The Iran -Iraq war was a terrifying meat grinder, but in fairness I think you should recognise Iraq attacked Iran , rather than the other way around. Indeed I think the US position was , at first anyway, to back Iraq somewhat against Iran.

Galloway’s efforts to prevent another war in the Middle East are exemplary

…by selling out the principles of his mother-country in return for favour from the leaders of a bloody-thirsty regime?

I don’t think you’ll get much support on this website for Galloway. Try the numerous far-left/neo-nazi/anti-semitic websites that are only too willing to cheer for him.

the great civilisation that is Persia, which hasn’t attacked another country for more than 300 years, not a boast we can make ourselves.

Not directly perhaps, but since it is responsible for both Hezbollah and Hamas, and that both these entities have started conflicts with Israel, Galloway’s statement is predictably disingenuous.

Galloway’s comments on the treatment of homosexuals in Iran, implying that it was no worse than in Tokyo, Texas and Tunbridge Wells, will come back to haunt him.

If he makes excuse for Iran’s increasingly cruel treatment of its own people, the Iranian diaspora here may become vocal critics of him.

You are a little piece of shit and definitely in need of therapy.

If you are indeed John Wright then it’s you who needs the therapy and you are an enormous turd. Snap! What do you say to that?! Zing!

PS The anti-zionist counter demo at the ‘Salute to Israel’ in London yesterday was crap to the point of non-existence. Pathetic, the lot of you.

Martin:

Does GG have a selective memory of the period from 1980-88?

Reply:

No, just a functioning one given that it was Iraq that invaded Iran.

The US has already been in Iran in 2003 hunted ‘Ansar-al-islam’, I thiknk anyway if memory serves. I wouldn’t be surprised if they been in since.

Anyways, judging from the sounds coming out of the Pentagon Gates and the Joint Chiefs are not exactly keen on any Iranian adventures.

My own take is that – Iran gets the bomb, Israel doesn’t attack but they and the US make it very clear to the Iranian Govt that any use of fissile material against Israel or NATO by Iran or its terrorist proxies means Tehran, Qum, Isfahan etc are toast. A mini cold war as it were.

I really don’t see any other reasonable way forward…….but then this is the BUsh Admin so tin foil hats anyone? Pass the iodine tablets!

What doesn’t he like about the Iranian leadership. I hope he’s not being Sunnist about them.

How does George taking cash from Iran and making up smears about executed gay men help prevent a war?

I think Galloway will be trying to prevent a war, to the same extent that the Stop the War Coalition is opposed to war. That is, not at all. He’s just going to make friends in a country he’s never visited before, and who can object to that?

That’s why he hasn’t been back to Iraq since 2003, because he knows the country too well (“the way a man loves a woman”, to be precise) and wants to go somewhere new.

John W, yes I think I understand the sequence of events in the Iran-Iraq war, it’s a very selective definition of the word ‘attacked’ to say that Iran never attacked another country, it wasn’t as if Iran merely defended itself for those 8 years.

In the interests of research I’ve just had a look at what Iran and Press TV are getting for their money.
Last nights programme contains a section here George smarms all over Gugulethu Moyo, a Zimbabwean born lawyer from the International Bar Association. Claiming that he’d been beaten up in Gugulethu Police station in Cape Town.
(Do tell, George) and had always loved the name(?) Gugulethu, on meeting Ms Ms Moyo, George realises thats “its beauties are not confined to a township in South Africa”

When Ms Moyo stresses that Mugabe very early on set up a one party state, George replies.

“thats not in itself necessarily a bad thing”

Its here for those who can bear it.
http://www.presstv.com/Programs/player/?id=62059

Interview begins 31.30 in.

“thats not in itself necessarily a bad thing”

George loves dictators. Any type will do.

For example, this is what he said about Musharraff, in 1999, in the Mail on Sunday:

“In poor third world countries like Pakistan politics is too important to be left to petty squabbling politicians. General Musharraf seems an upright sort to me and should be given a chance to put Pakistan’s house in order before managing to return to normal politics.”

“…the great civilisation that is Persia, which hasn’t attacked another country for more than 300 years, not a boast we can make ourselves.”

Nice to see Galloway standing up for the peaceful foreign policy of the Pahlavi and Qajar Shahs. Fair play. Not sure what the Bokharans would say about it, though but.

Galloway advertises his apperance on Press TV via his Talksport Radio programme. Surely this is:-

a) Free advertising for a rival media company
b) Inviting people to watch him INSTEAD of listening to Talksport – which is surely not allowed.

Why do Talksport put up with this?

David,
I’ve heard that George recently did an interview for Press TV with an embryologist on the bill going through Parliament, and that he ensured he was seen with his tisbah which he isn’t usually.
I thought it sounded a bit far fetched. But no.
Here it is

http://www.presstv.com/Programs/player/?id=57407

Fully dressed up in pimp suit, here is the religious presenter interviewing the godless scientist.

You are a repugnant human being. Galloway’s efforts to prevent another war in the Middle East are exemplary

How exemplary are his statements like “We are all Hezbollah now” and his open support for “armed resistance to Israel” (ie killing Israelis) and support for Hamas?

Are these exemplars of behaviour and attitude?

, Israel doesn’t attack but they and the US make it very clear to the Iranian Govt that any use of fissile material against Israel or NATO by Iran or its terrorist proxies means Tehran, Qum, Isfahan etc are toast. A mini cold war as it were.

And then a nuclear destroyed Israel goes out and punishes Iran while millions of its citizens are dead or dying.

Yup! That’ll work!!!!

is Ahmadinejad holding another Holocaust denying conference?

if so Galloway could take along John Wight, as he probably be very happy mixing with Ahmadinejad’s guest: holocaust deniers, neo-Nazis and cranks

a real meeting of “minds”!

Axiom: A Nuclear Iran is unacceptable.

Axiom: If the US strikes then Iraq is lost.

Axiom: Israel ain’t got the firepower alone and it’s partial strike against Iran would be the absolute perfect excuse for Iran to claim that, much against it’s wishes, it was upgrading it’s nuclear program from it’s previously “peaceful” intentions to weaponry.

Conclusion: We’re in a Persian Finger-trap. There are three ways out. We hope the Islamic Republic is overthrown very soon and do everything we can to help this (most desirable, not that likely), we nuke the fuckers back to the Pre-Cambrian (appalling but effective) or we just let them proj along until God knows what happens.

It’s a puzzler. Maven, my option three probably comes down to your scenario. I’m with Ellen Ripley on this. Nuke it from orbit – it’s the only way to be sure. because, whilst a dreadful act, I’d rather see Qom turned to glass than London. And anyone who thinks otherwise is either an inhabitant of Qom or a cunt or both.

‘Poor old Mugabe. If only he were a muslim he too could secure Galloway’s services’.

If Mugabe has enough readies he can buy his services.

‘Martin:

Does GG have a selective memory of the period from 1980-88?

Reply:

No, just a functioning one given that it was Iraq that invaded Iran.’

From 1982 to 1988 Iran was fighting on Iraqi soil. It tried (and failed) to seize Basra, and it’s declared objective was to overthrow Saddam Hussein’s regime (an objective which – funnily enough – so-called ‘anti-imperialists’ found repugnant in 2003).

Also, as far as the ‘Persia, which hasn’t attacked another country for more than 300 years’ crap is concerned, my most recent reading – Peter Hopkirk’s ‘The Great Game’ – devotes a chapter to the Persian siege of Herat in 1837-1838. There were also at least two wars for Mesopotamia between the Persian and Ottoman empires during the 18th century, and Nadir Shah’s invasion of the Mughal empire in 1739, during which the peaceful, non-aggressive Persians sacked Delhi and massacred its citizens.

Closer to today, George might want to ask his anti-imperialist, non-land-grabbing hosts in Tehran when they plan to hand back Abu Musa and the Tunbs to the UAE, and when they will relinquish their territorial claim to Bahrain.

…several threads on HP have suddenly begun to degenerate into soggy biscuit fests for armchair wargamers?

In the same way some people say that we should not interfere in Zimbabwe because the MDC and/or the citizens of Zimbabwe don’t care enough about democracy to overthrow Mugabe themselves; it could also be said that ordinary Iranians only have themselves to blame if they get nuked. In other words, because the people of Iran have allowed their leadership to continue with their existential threats against Israel while developing nuclear weapons – they got what was coming to them. Kind of like what people say about the US and 9/11.

So I’d go with option 3 as a last resort.

John W said :”
You are a repugnant human being. Galloway’s efforts to prevent another war in the Middle East are exemplary”

I’ve seen Galloway speak and read a lot of what he has said and he has done more to promote despots in the Mddle East than work for peace.

The only way Galloway could promote peace in the region is if he was resident in Tehran when or if the Americans bomb it. A stoker of conflict in the form of the foul Galloway would then be no more.

Galloway and his band of acolytes undermine genuine peacemaking activities.

Galloway is not only a fool he is a dangerous fool.

Is this the same John Wight who excoriated Sinn Fein for giving tp “the Struggle”?

I thought that was Monaghan?
This is the John Wight who drives Sheridan to Court.

That Galloway programme is the nearest thing I’ve ever seen in English to Alo Presidente, though at least Iran don’t let George take over the entire schedule and preen himself infront of cameras (not that many people are watching) for the entire evening. But can anyone really watch it? If his Talksport programme is similar, why do people listen? Is it a substitute for a diet – causing mass vomiting and/or diarrhoea?

The Yvonne Ridley show is also more than a bit weird (especially when Israel-hating SWPer John Rose is there to tell the ‘truth’ on the history of Zionism)…

That is why.

I’m fairly sure it is, Tim. Just as it’s the same John Wight who’s mates with Mick Napier, the justifier of murdering Jewish children (not even ‘collatoral damage’) on account of their detesting Gentiles. And another surfer of neo-nazi sites.

DZ wrote:

“The Yvonne Ridley show is also more than a bit weird (especially when Israel-hating SWPer John Rose is there to tell the ‘truth’ on the history of Zionism)…”

Why on earth is John Rose associating with a station that promotes holocaust denial, and gives a platform to neo-Nazis?

http://adamholland.blogspot.com/2008/05/iran-promotes-holocaust-denial-in-uk.html
http://adamholland.blogspot.com/2008/05/yvonne-ridley-has-her-say.html

here’s a direct link to that filth (care take): http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=56287&sectionid=3510303

Press TV is promoting the views of that neo-Nazi Nick Kollerstrom

I wonder who’ll be on the guest list for the press TV anniversary party?
I’m sure George will have the strength of character to tackle any Neo Nazis and Holocaust deniers.
Just like he tackled the rapist Uday Hussein. “ahh …Your Excellency”

When exactly was John Rose on PressTV? anyone know?

I am hunting around, but they seem to protect their video using M$’ Silverlight :(

http://www.presstv.com/Programs/archive/#

the Agenda.

Tim,

been there, done that :)

I am looking for the direct video and when John Rose was on, I need the date.

I have found Sabby Sagall but I want John Rose.

Thanks to sackcloth and ashes for the history notes. I had doubted that Iran could have established its present boundaries wouthout any conquests. They speak Farsi in the heartland, and round the edges there are sizable areas speaking Baluchi, Arabic and Azeri, just for three languages.

And of course the language of the Mughal Court in Delhi was Farsi. Is anybody claiming that the spread of Islam to the sub-continent was entirely and always peaceful?

Marven
I am observing the likeliest scenario. Are we to assume that the Iranian Govt is immune to MAD?

Iran is a complex place with a Government of competing power blocs.

Surely jaw jaw is better here then a pre-emptive strike. If reports of the US SecDef meeting is correct he is saying the same thing.

We gambled the USSR had more sense. Why are we not prepared to do that here?

Perhaps because the USSR did have more sense and didn’t believe in sky-fairies.

“For the people of Iran, its difficult to see how placing George Galloway and a group of holocaust deniers near a nuclear installation, makes an attack by Israel any less likely. Like waking up one Bavarian morning in 1941 and finding a poster of Unity Mitford on your neighbour’s roof.”

except its not Iran attacking other nations its Israel and the US

“How much Iran are paying Galloway, and through how many companies the money has passed is yet to be declared.

It took the people of Iraq years to find out out that they had been paying Galloway’s hotel bills while he fawned before Uday Hussein.

Hopefully it won’t take too long to find out how much cash from Iran is headed Galloway’s way”

significantly less than our politicians get from the zionist lobby to back Israeli terror

NickM
“It’s a puzzler. Maven, my option three probably comes down to your scenario. I’m with Ellen Ripley on this. Nuke it from orbit – it’s the only way to be sure. because, whilst a dreadful act, I’d rather see Qom turned to glass than London. And anyone who thinks otherwise is either an inhabitant of Qom or a cunt or both.”

Genocide of Muslims on Harry’s Place. Whats new?

“John W, yes I think I understand the sequence of events in the Iran-Iraq war, it’s a very selective definition of the word ‘attacked’ to say that Iran never attacked another country, it wasn’t as if Iran merely defended itself for those 8 years.”
Martin Ohr

Indeed – I draw your attention to the following point at the Fez Peace Summit, 1982

“The Conference, having studied the situation in the Gulf and having noted with great affliction and regret the continuation of the Iraq-Iran war, despite repeated attempts to reach a cease-fire and despite offers of mediation and good offices on the part of international organizations, appreciating Iraq’s positive initiative of withdrawing its military forces back to the international frontiers;”

Iraq withdrew, Iran attacked and continued the war for another 5+ years…but Iran is never aggressive is it?

I love how the mention of Georgie boy whips up the vitriole at HP.

‘They speak Farsi in the heartland, and round the edges there are sizable areas speaking Baluchi, Arabic and Azeri, just for three languages’.

And it’s also worth noting that there’s an insurgency in Iranian Kurdistan (PJAK) and in Baluchistan too (Jundollah). Plus, as HP has noted, the Arabs of Khuzestan have been restive, although I wouldn’t describe the situation there as an insurgency.

Oh, and ‘me’ is a stool sample as well.

If John Rose shouldn’t have gone on Press TV then nor, presumably should Martin ‘not very’ Bright, Oliver Kamm, Peter Tatchell or Andrew Gilligan.

I don’t think anyone should go on Press TV and give it an air of respectability. Galloway can stay there though, they seem, hm, made for each other. In any case, the spiv is just a bullshitter, as the interview on embriology showed all too well – GG was totally out of his depth, shiny suit or otherwise, and the scientist came across well. Luckily the scientist wasn’t female or Galloway would have just smarmingly ‘flirted’/made sexist comments at her every time he began losing the argument.

And John Rose’s contribution – to Y. Ridley’s “Agenda” programme entitled “Is the World Loosing Faith in Zionist Regime?”(sic) from May 8th – would have been strange, nasty stuff, regardless of where he said it.

http://www.presstv.com/Programs/player/?id=54997

MAD still works, thank god and alas. Stalin had an absolute sky pixie in the dialectic as did Mao. Neither was stupid enough to end all life in their nation in a nuclear war. Indeed, does anyone rate Kim Jong Ill as much more of a pragmatist than the Iranian theocrats?

Ahmadinejad is not that stupid either, just hatefilled and devious. Nor is he all powerful. Iran should not have the bomb (frankly I would prefer it if nobody had it) but the choice is not between Qom today or Tel Aviv or London or New York tomorrow. It is about dirty diplomacy with a slowly dying regime.

Do you think George was trying out for a similar position with China over the Tibet repression earlier this year. I mean, he’s got his head screwed on, thats where the big money’s at!

Alec MacPherson, arsehole, given that you’re in Edinburgh why not seek me out at the next stall or meeting and so we can discuss our differences face to face?

Eh?

How does that sound?

‘Alec MacPherson, arsehole, given that you’re in Edinburgh why not seek me out at the next stall or meeting and so we can discuss our differences face to face?’

Didn’t know the National Front had a branch in Scotland.

When is John doing his Holcaust Denial stall?

If I was you Alec, I’d go and laugh at him during Tommys trial.

Sounds like a threat to me. Weird individual quickly becoming unglued. Nah, the police would have to form a preventative phalanx around at least one of us.

That said, you cannot have been at the stall which I skipped by humming “Ding dong, Saddam’s dead, the wicked Saddam’s dead”.

Quick, get to Alphabet Video, I see they’re sticking Israeli films.

You see, you’re just confirming all the worst prejudices about the Scots.

One minute its all “och come and have a hug, you’re my best pal” etc.

Then, suddenly, its fists flying, Kirby kisses, and razorblades stitched into lapels.

Razorblades? I use fish-hooks!

Poor old Onion Johnnie, can’t manage without a dozen ‘anti-war’ activitists to back him up.

Alec, do you plan to ‘melt’, ‘banjo’ or ‘malkie’ him?

Swedge him sounds better. Here, Johnnie, what does your mate Mick think of Gentile hatred in Jerusalem markets?

Hi,
Just passing through on my way back from Tehran and glad to see that you are all becoming avid viewers of The Agenda … sadly not attentive ones. John Rose did not appear on the May 8 show but the guests who did were Gavin Gross, head of the British Zionist Federation and three academics, Dr Jennifer Loewenstein, Sabby Sagall and Dr Israel de Jesus Butler.
John appeared on a show of mine last year, if you really would like to see it send me an email at Press TV and I am sure I will be able to get you a viewing. It would be such a shame if you missed out on a fair, balanced and educational programme you would not get a chance to see on mainstream or Fox. It was, I recall, very passionate and threw up quite a heated debate.
Some members of HP have also enjoyed free and full discussion on The Agenda … if only they would admit it.
Kindest regards
Yvonne Ridley

Hey, Yvonne, thanks for popping by. Are you happy with Press TV championing Nicholas Kollerstrom’s Holocaust denial theories?